Battle damage from JHMR.

[Tricia]

I'll post what happened to my skis when I get home.

Ok, I'm going to be that guy....

Snow is white. Rocks, stumps, trees, your buddy, Rock Chucks and Moose are not white. Stay on the white stuff and you won't tear skis up, you hit the other stuff, bad things happen.

I really don't understand people and rock damage. Unless you are in a true "no fall" situation there is very little reason to hit rocks unless you are just being careless. I ski fast and aggressively and very rarely hit a rock or even get a mark on my skis. Maybe it's because I work on damage like this, that I'm a little more careful with thin spots and rocky areas when I'm skiing. But, avoiding rock damage really isn't that hard.

It drives me crazy when skiers come in with impact and rock damage and they blame the ski area, the build of the skis, and everything else besides themselves and carelessness. Their first statement goes something like this, "I was just skiing along and the edge pulled out or the tips just blew apart." or "I don't know how it happened.", etc., etc. I just roll my eyes...

I guess that I really don't know why I'm being grumpy about it. The shop guy's mantra ought to be, "Go on and tear 'em up, I'll fix 'em, but it's gonna cost ya" and "Tear'em up boys, they make new one's every day, and I'll sell 'em to you".

Just an old shop guys rant for a Monday...

Oh, I don't know.
I'm pretty cautious but even I hit the occasionally rock on the downhill side of a bump.
Also the low tide Jan/Feb we've had here in Tahoe has left me with those tiny little rolling rocks on trails that you wouldn't expect that leave a little extra base structure.

 

[Andy Mink]

Oh, I don't know.
I'm pretty cautious but even I hit the occasionally rock on the downhill side of a bump.
Also the low tide Jan/Feb we've had here in Tahoe has left me with those tiny little rolling rocks on trails that you wouldn't expect that leave a little extra base structure.

Today was a perfect example of how to booger your skis. 12-15" of soft fluff over scrapy leftovers. I know there were rocks in there before the snow; I just don't know where they are now. If you're sinking through the fluff, you will eventually find the hidden treasure.

 

[mdf]

The poor things just got tired. They once had camber underfoot.

 

[Tricia]

The poor things just got tired. They once had camber underfoot.
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Time for some new Enforcer 93s

 

[fatbob]

Nah you just haven't got your tuning bench set up properly - Cap'n Crunch and Cheerios will sort you out

 

[Tom K.]

Unless you are going to come out of your bindings and that is not recommended at some places (say the opening to the right to Expert Chutes off Tensleep (esp it you are headed right), this is going to happen @ JHMR. It just is. It isn't a grassy meadow in the Summer.

Truth.

I've got a friend that was a summer tram operator at JH. He says that one of the most frequent questions from tourists viewing the rubble pile that is JH is "where do they do the skiing?".

Tower 3 Chute, without snow, is a sight to behold. It looks nothing like a ski run.

Some areas (like Big Sky in MT, Magic in VT) have sharp little rock chips that percolate up through the snowpack. Pretty much unavoidable.

Again, truth.

And the real corker is that Lone Peak has considerable geothermal heat beneath it, so snow actually flashes off. It is astounding to see one "powder" field in particular off the expert chair (name escapes me) turn into an exposed scree field two days after a dump.

@cantunamunch, can we all say "sublimation"?

 

[mdf]

The poor things just got tired.

I was annoyed that they wore out so soon, but then I realized they have close to two million vertical feet on them. I guess that's fair.

 

[James]

The poor things just got tired. They once had camber underfoot.
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Those are your Navigator 85’s?

 

[BC.]

Ok, I'm going to be that guy....

Snow is white. Rocks, stumps, trees, your buddy, Rock Chucks and Moose are not white. Stay on the white stuff and you won't tear skis up, you hit the other stuff, bad things happen.

I really don't understand people and rock damage. Unless you are in a true "no fall" situation there is very little reason to hit rocks unless you are just being careless. I ski fast and aggressively and very rarely hit a rock or even get a mark on my skis. Maybe it's because I work on damage like this, that I'm a little more careful with thin spots and rocky areas when I'm skiing. But, avoiding rock damage really isn't that hard.

It drives me crazy when skiers come in with impact and rock damage and they blame the ski area, the build of the skis, and everything else besides themselves and carelessness. Their first statement goes something like this, "I was just skiing along and the edge pulled out or the tips just blew apart." or "I don't know how it happened.", etc., etc. I just roll my eyes...

I guess that I really don't know why I'm being grumpy about it. The shop guy's mantra ought to be, "Go on and tear 'em up, I'll fix 'em, but it's gonna cost ya" and "Tear'em up boys, they make new one's every day, and I'll sell 'em to you".

Just an old shop guys rant for a Monday...

I guess you exclusively ski on groomed trails.......in OH.

 

[mdf]

Those are your Navigator 85’s?

Yes. Or at least they were....

 

[KingGrump]

Yes. Or at least they were....

Why "were"? You sold them?

 

[Coolhand]

I consider myself "flamed", well done everyone. By all means, everyone should ski where ever they want, with rocks or not. The "hero" line, famous chute, or whatever it is that you want to add to your resume or notch in your gunstock, good for you. If it's your own skis and you are good with the damage and associated loss of performance, fine. My frustration is with this kind of abuse being done to rental and demo gear that I rent out. Just so they can get the ego boost of skiing "that line". I know, it should just be the cost of doing business. But IMHO, it sucks and is just a matter of carelessness by the skier.

By the way, I live out west, I have skied JHMR and Big Sky extensively, and not just on groomers. There are a lot of bony areas filled with sharp rocks at both ski areas, but a little caution and attention to what you are skiing go a long way to avoiding impact damage. There are some lines that are just thin and rocky no matter what, I avoid them, because the damage to equipment just isn't worth it to me. If it doesn't matter to you, fine. To each their own.

 

[EricG]

@Coolhand - not sure where your shop is, but having run multiple shops in Bozeman that serviced Big Sky & Bridger Bowl the damage to our demo fleet was simply a cost of doing business. Many people that caused excess damage (core shots, etc..) were billed a nominal fee to fix the skis. We charged the fee and/or offer the customer the repaired skis at a reduced price and then moved along to the next customer.

I've been out of the shop for several years, but I still kinda see skis as semi-disposable.

 

[Wade]

I consider myself "flamed", well done everyone. By all means, everyone should ski where ever they want, with rocks or not. The "hero" line, famous chute, or whatever it is that you want to add to your resume or notch in your gunstock, good for you. If it's your own skis and you are good with the damage and associated loss of performance, fine. My frustration is with this kind of abuse being done to rental and demo gear that I rent out. Just so they can get the ego boost of skiing "that line". I know, it should just be the cost of doing business. But IMHO, it sucks and is just a matter of carelessness by the skier.

By the way, I live out west, I have skied JHMR and Big Sky extensively, and not just on groomers. There are a lot of bony areas filled with sharp rocks at both ski areas, but a little caution and attention to what you are skiing go a long way to avoiding impact damage. There are some lines that are just thin and rocky no matter what, I avoid them, because the damage to equipment just isn't worth it to me. If it doesn't matter to you, fine. To each their own.

Why do you think the reason people ski certain lines would be to put another notch on the belt or to deliver an ego boost? Why can’t it just be because they love to ski, and especially love to ski steep terrain with great snow?

I guess there’s nothing really wrong with tying your view of yourself as a skier to having skied a specific line (other than it potentially being dangerous if you’re trying to ski something beyond your ability just to say you did it). Probably best to avoid projecting that on to others though.

 

[Ogg]

@Coolhand I am quite aware that I am relatively hard on my equipment. I’m going to ski where I want, will own any damage I do and am long past caring about notches in my belt. The phrase “tools not jewels” is spot on, IMO. I also think I managed to fix my ski better than the vast majority of shops would have done. I am a bit more careful with demos but if I hit something...

 

[mdf]

Avoiding rocks is also an acquired skill. A couple times recently I saw and avoided a rock, then told the next skier how to miss it. But it is a matter of inches, and sure enough, that next skier went right over the rock (on his own skis).

But as a matter of odds, if you ski challenging terrain with occasional rocks all day for a week, you are probably going to make at least one mistake and hit something.

 

[Scruffy]

The poor things just got tired. They once had camber underfoot.
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Well, now you have a pair of rock skis. Could you tell the difference how they skied without the normal camber?

 

[mdf]

Well, now you have a pair of rock skis. Could you tell the difference how they skied without the normal camber?

Yes, I could. They pivotedreally easily in tight spots in the trees -- I'm starting to see the appeal of rocker. They still carved fine on the nice soft groomers we had, although observers said my tips were flappng in an amusing manner. We never had any challenging hard surfaces, so no idea how badly grip would be affected.

I did notice that it was harder to drive the tips down the backside of a mogul (and have them engage), making speed control in the moguls more challenging.

 

[Scruffy]

I did notice that it was harder to drive the tips down the backside of a mogul (and have them engage), making speed control in the moguls more challenging.

Not good then, time to mount up your spare pair maybe.

 

[mdf]

Not good then, time to mount up your spare pair maybe.

Hey, I don't stockpile everything. No spare pair.
But I do need something to ski till @Philpug can introduce me to the next ski I'm going to love.
So I just ordered another pair.
I'll move the bindings over.