Base Protection Tape While Edge Tuning -- Special Purpose vs Blue Painter's Masking Tape?

[jkalucki]

The only sure way I've found to prevent base P-tex damage while edge tuning is to apply base protection tape. Is there any advantage in application, protection, or tape interference to the purpose-made tapes from Toko or Swix, or is medium adhesion blue painter's masking tape good enough?

I haven't noticed any adhesive residue from tuning a few pairs with blue tape, and the bases seem well protected. Perhaps a wrinkle in the blue tape would case the edge angle to be slightly off? Or the tape thickness itself could be an issue? It certainly requires some patience to tape right up the the metal edge the entire ski length without inducing any wrinkles in blue tape.

 

[Scruffy]

I've been tuning skis (lots) for over 25 years and have never had a need to protect the base while tuning the edge? That includes my race skis. Can you articulate when you would have a need to use the tape?

 

[OldJeep]

I've been tuning skis (lots) for over 25 years and have never had a need to protect the base while tuning the edge? That includes my race skis. Can you articulate when you would have a need to use the tape?

x2 - what are you protecting them from? A quality edge tool like a beast has a smooth surface that rides on your base - unless you get something on it or your base there isn't going to be any damage.

 

[jkalucki]

I sometimes get longitudinal lines on the base, even with fairly light pressure against the base. I think the marking is possibly from the metal filings falling down, and/or the black gunk that sometimes builds up on the angle guide. I can't really predict when marks will appear. It may be more noticeable on freshly ground bases with good structure than on older, more worn, bases.

If I wipe the angle guide clean with a cloth every few strokes, and scrape the gunk whenever it appears, I can really minimize the issue, but it's pretty time consuming. I suppose always cleaning the base first might help eliminate the black gunk, but I don't always have time to do an edge tune and a wax on the same evening, which might be my error.

This is worse with the orange Multi Tuner (Mountain TEK, but I've seen it rebranded elsewhere) which I only use when working the base edge, as it concentrates the downward sharpening pressure in a half-dozen narrow stripes. Thankfully I rarely need to get into that kind of work.

 

[Sibhusky]

I bought the tape for when I'm filing, but it proved more trouble to put on than it was worth. I use a paint brush to wipe shavings off with every pass and it's sufficient.
With tuning I'm accumulating quite a drawer full of Things I Used Once.

 

[cantunamunch]

I sometimes get longitudinal lines on the base, even with fairly light pressure against the base. I think the marking is possibly from the metal filings falling down, and/or the black gunk that sometimes builds up on the angle guide. I can't really predict when marks will appear. It may be more noticeable on freshly ground bases with good structure than on older, more worn, bases.

If I wipe the angle guide clean with a cloth every few strokes, and scrape the gunk whenever it appears, I can really minimize the issue, but it's pretty time consuming. I suppose always cleaning the base first might help eliminate the black gunk, but I don't always have time to do an edge tune and a wax on the same evening, which might be my error.

This is worse with the orange Multi Tuner (Mountain TEK, but I've seen it rebranded elsewhere) which I only use when working the base edge, as it concentrates the downward sharpening pressure in a half-dozen narrow stripes. Thankfully I rarely need to get into that kind of work.

Do only your side edges on a no-time-to-wax night, and do them with the side edge up towards you. Find an angle where the gunk falls towards the sidewall and away from the bases.

Set up that way, guide pressure on the base is minimal - less than a pound of force is usually plenty- so you're not rubbing anything into your bases.

 

[Jacques]

The only sure way I've found to prevent base P-tex damage while edge tuning is to apply base protection tape. Is there any advantage in application, protection, or tape interference to the purpose-made tapes from Toko or Swix, or is medium adhesion blue painter's masking tape good enough?

I haven't noticed any adhesive residue from tuning a few pairs with blue tape, and the bases seem well protected. Perhaps a wrinkle in the blue tape would case the edge angle to be slightly off? Or the tape thickness itself could be an issue? It certainly requires some patience to tape right up the the metal edge the entire ski length without inducing any wrinkles in blue tape.

Don't sweat the small stuff. That said are you using aluminum guides without stainless steel glide plates?
If so, they will tend to get a build up.
If you use tape, the thin tape for tuning would be best. It only needs to be placed where the guide touches the base.
If your guides sliding surface goes into the skis edge, I think you have the wrong guides.

 

[Primoz]

The only sure way I've found to prevent base P-tex damage while edge tuning is to apply base protection tape. Is there any advantage in application, protection, or tape interference to the purpose-made tapes from Toko or Swix, or is medium adhesion blue painter's masking tape good enough?

There's two things to do. One.... wax skis, leave wax on, and only then use file guides. (Almost) Never do it on clean base. Of course that means, your wax layer should be relatively thin, and of course flat, which might be challenge on beginning for some. And second, use tape over this. Swix/Toko/Holmenkol/Start/Maplus... have two different tapes. One is exactly same as painter's masking tape is, except it has company logo printed on, and it's probably 5 times the price of noname masking tape. And the other one is "plastic" one, with way stronger glue on bottom, and that's definitely not the right one to go with. So personally, I use either Swix "masking tape", since I get it free, or normal painter's masking tape, which is exactly same thing minus Swix logo, when I run out of Swix one and new supply is not coming yet
PS: I never bother gluing it all the way to edge, but some 5+mm off the edge. Guide never touches edge, so tape is not used to protect edge, but to protect ptex from damages, and to make guide slide easier when doing skis with wax on.

 

[jkalucki]

Do only your side edges on a no-time-to-wax night, and do them with the side edge up towards you. Find an angle where the gunk falls towards the sidewall and away from the bases.

Set up that way, guide pressure on the base is minimal - less than a pound of force is usually plenty- so you're not rubbing anything into your bases.

I'll give this a try, but I don't know if my vices allow tipping this way. It certainly couldn't hurt to have the filings falling towards the topsheet instead of the base...

 

[jkalucki]

Don't sweat the small stuff. That said are you using aluminum guides without stainless steel glide plates?
If so, they will tend to get a build up.
If you use tape, the thin tape for tuning would be best. It only needs to be placed where the guide touches the base.
If your guides sliding surface goes into the skis edge, I think you have the wrong guides.

Yes, I'm using aluminum one piece side edge file guides from KUU. They're similar to the simplest Swix guide. They are a simple angle iron at the ends, with an oval removed in the middle to reduce edge contact and allow filings to fall.

I'm assuming that a stainless steel spad somehow stays cleaner than the aluminum surface? Given the base bevel angle, nothing hits the edge in normal use.

 

[jkalucki]

There's two things to do. One.... wax skis, leave wax on, and only then use file guides. (Almost) Never do it on clean base. Of course that means, your wax layer should be relatively thin, and of course flat, which might be challenge on beginning for some. And second, use tape over this. Swix/Toko/Holmenkol/Start/Maplus... have two different tapes. One is exactly same as painter's masking tape is, except it has company logo printed on, and it's probably 5 times the price of noname masking tape. And the other one is "plastic" one, with way stronger glue on bottom, and that's definitely not the right one to go with. So personally, I use either Swix "masking tape", since I get it free, or normal painter's masking tape, which is exactly same thing minus Swix logo, when I run out of Swix one and new supply is not coming yet
PS: I never bother gluing it all the way to edge, but some 5+mm off the edge. Guide never touches edge, so tape is not used to protect edge, but to protect ptex from damages, and to make guide slide easier when doing skis with wax on.

Ahh. Thank you! This is the reply I was looking for!

If it's the same as blue painter's masking tape, I'm going to stick with the blue stuff.

Coordinating the wax with side edge maintenance seems helpful when not using tape. I think using tape on unwaxed bases *should* be OK if pressed for time.

My side bevel angle guides (see reply above) have two small areas where they go all the way up to the file shelf, and they don't have a secondary base-side pad to keep that connecting area away from the ski base. When getting started, it's so hard to tell which tools can be basic, and which have to be higher end. I assumed an angle guide is an angle guide, went to the clearance bin, and instead got the higher end files and stones.

 

[Atomicman]

The OP is right on the money! Protecting a newly ground base from a tell tale tiny piece of metal is why they make base tape. The ski specific tape is very thin and also your guide slides easier on it. Painter's tape is too thick and too much drag. Painter's tape is nothing like Base tape. I don;t know what painter's tape MDF is talking about but the Blue 3m stuff is totally different! Additionally, it tears very easily and you have to tape the base with each piece being the entire length of your ski.. Not easy to get a piece that long with blue painter's tape.

I have be tuning for years and always use base tape. Every time I don't use base tape. there is a longitudinal scratch from a tiny piece of metal. I even keep a paint brush handy and brush the base off and the guide and file. So no this guy is not dreaming this up. IMHO, all your base cleaning, hot scraping and waxing should be done after tuning the edges.

 

[Primoz]

Based on what @Atomicman wrote, I guess I'm talking about different "painter's tape". Over here, it's not blue, even though I saw (very rarely) some blue versions too, but yellow, and as I wrote, it's exactly same as "base tape", except lot cheaper.

 

[Scruffy]

IMHO, all your base cleaning, hot scraping and waxing should be done after tuning the edges.

Wouldn't negate the need for base tape?

 

[mdf]

. I don;t know what painter's tape MDF is talking about but the Blue 3m stuff is totally different! Additionally, it tears very easily and you have to tape the base with each piece being the entire length of your ski.. Not easy to get a piece that long with blue painter's tape.

Ummm, I don't think I have posted in this thread.
But I have used painter's tape for, strangely enough, painting recently.
The traditional is paper, with a sort of micro-crinkly surface. There are newer versions that are plastic and sound a lot more appropriate for base tape.

Both are still blue, though there is a green brand. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a yellow versio too. The new stuff is a lot easier to paint a clean edge with.

That said, I think this is one of the places where race and recreational tuning diverge. I've never seen any bits of metal filings embedded in my base. I do see some metal powder from stoning that goes up to the edge and maybe around the corner to the base. I wipe it off with an alcohol-wetted paper towel.

 

[Primoz]

Wouldn't negate the need for base tape?

Nope. When filing small pieces of edge get inbetween file guide and ptex and damages ptex. Tape is used to prevent this damage. Layer of wax (normally transport was something like Swix BP88) adds additional layer of protection.
With "waxing first" and filing when keeping ski waxes, I mean this "transport wax" not final wax. Final wax of the day (plus possible overlays) are done after filling is done.

 

[Dakine]

Package sealing clear tape works well but it is harder to remove than the Holmenkohl base tape I prefer.

 

[James]

Ptex has a an affinity for metal. I think aluminum sheet particles from filing the top sheet edge have caused me the most probs.
Having said that, lots of racers never use it. Protecting bindings from keep stuff out might be the most common use.

 

[Atomicman]

Ummm, I don't think I have posted in this thread.
But I have used painter's tape for, strangely enough, painting recently.
The traditional is paper, with a sort of micro-crinkly surface. There are newer versions that are plastic and sound a lot more appropriate for base tape.

Both are still blue, though there is a green brand. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a yellow versio too. The new stuff is a lot easier to paint a clean edge with.

That said, I think this is one of the places where race and recreational tuning diverge. I've never seen any bits of metal filings embedded in my base. I do see some metal powder from stoning that goes up to the edge and maybe around the corner to the base. I wipe it off with an alcohol-wetted paper towel.

Sorry I meant Primoz......Brain Fade

 

[Atomicman]

Ummm, I don't think I have posted in this thread.
But I have used painter's tape for, strangely enough, painting recently.
The traditional is paper, with a sort of micro-crinkly surface. There are newer versions that are plastic and sound a lot more appropriate for base tape.

Both are still blue, though there is a green brand. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a yellow versio too. The new stuff is a lot easier to paint a clean edge with.

That said, I think this is one of the places where race and recreational tuning diverge. I've never seen any bits of metal filings embedded in my base. I do see some metal powder from stoning that goes up to the edge and maybe around the corner to the base. I wipe it off with an alcohol-wetted paper towel.

Metal isn't embedded it scratches the base.