Back to the slopes

[zz28zz]

From 1984 to 1991 I skied quite a bit and mostly in the Lake Tahoe area. Since 1991, I've been 2 times (NM and Colo ) and that was over 10 years ago. In 3 weeks I'll be headed to Wisconsin to ski for a couple of days. It might be pretty cold. I've always had cold toes and it's not getting any better with age. The Lenz socks look to be the best option but can't justify that much cash for something I might use a few times. With that in mind, I started looking for the best alternative. Spent the last week looking at modern socks, reading reviews until my eyes are bleeding.
I don't expect to be doing much rigorous skiing. Will be teaching our daughter to ski (her first time) so expect to be snow-plough'ing at abt 5 mph most of the time. We'll also be renting equip so adding a heated foot bed isn't really an option. (Already verified the resort doesn't offer a heated boot rental. Too bad, cause I would gladly pay the difference)

Now my short list of questions:

1. For socks, I have it narrowed down to Smartwool PhD medium or the Darn Tough. Anyone owned both to compare? Any others that are warmer?

2. Need a new coat/jacket, any recommendations for 6' 3" guy? Is North Face still near the top of the heap?

3. Elec glove liners? Anyone used these for skiing? Will they fit inside my existing gloves or would I need to buy an oversized glove?

4. Heat pack/toe warmers? Can they be placed inside a ski boot? Will they work? Sounds very un-comfortable.

Thx in adv for any suggestions/recommendations!

 

[LiquidFeet]

Stick these onto the top of your socks. Any socks made for skiing will do because they wick moisture. One pair is enough per day. Slide feet carefully into boots so as to not fold these up.

Dry your boots every night. You can buy a boot dryer, but heat is not necessary if you blow air inside the boots all night long. Those boots need to be dry for your second day in a row of skiing, or your feet will get cold. There are many types of boot warmers.

If feet still don't stay warm enough, buy these and put them on top of your boots. They keep the warmth from escaping.

Buy mittens not gloves, the ones with one big undivided pocket inside for four fingers. Do this only if your hands don't stay warm in gloves. Many skiers do fine with well-insulated gloves, but that does not work for everyone. Why mittens instead of gloves for cold hands? Because you can put these inside the mittens against your fingers. I keep them nestled on top of my fingers.

These are a low-tech way of staying warm. Going low-tech eliminates batteries and wires and chargers. And expense.

If you buy lightly insulated or non-insulated ski pants and jackets, you'll need liners beneath them on cold days. This is what I usually do, until the temps outside reach below zero F. A compressible light down or synthetic down jacket that zips up might keep you warm under a non-insulated shell, along with a fleece or wool sweater. Fleece tights (and wool) are what people wear beneath uninsulated ski pants. Going the uninsulated route allows you to choose how much insulation your want to wear each day, depending on the forecast.

 

[pchewn]

Why mittens instead of gloves for cold hands? Because you can put these inside the mittens against your fingers. I keep them nestled on top of my fingers.

Why mittens instead of gloves for cold hands?

1) In mittens, the ratio of surface area to volume is reduced compared to gloves. The ratio of surface area to volume will determine the rate at which heat is lost. (e.g. A sphere is the lowest surface area to volume ratio)

2) In mittens, they allow a heat packet to be installed easier.

Mittens are warmer than gloves even before adding the heat packet.

 

[LiquidFeet]

^^ I know that fingers touching fingers keeps fingers warm. But I never thought of it this way (#1 above). Thanks for the new perspective.

 

[zz28zz]

Great info! Thx.
How many of the toe packs are you supposed to install? One for each toe or just 1 total? How long do they last?
What abt putting a couple of the large heat packs under a boot glove?

 

[Jilly]

They fit over the forefoot, so one! Keep an eye in Costco in September. You can buy them by the case. I have the electric mitts, but only for -20C days...

Welcome to our world.

 

[Rostapher]

Great info! Thx.
How many of the toe packs are you supposed to install? One for each toe or just 1 total? How long do they last?
What abt putting a couple of the large heat packs under a boot glove?

1 “toe” heater per foot, one will pretty much cover the entire top of the toes.
I think the package says something like 4-6 hours. If it’s really cold be prepared change to a new pair at lunch.
IMO heat packs outside the boot shell would be entirely too far away from your foot to do any good. Better to put the heat on the foot with the toe packs. I have boot gloves & IME don’t really keep your feet warm, but they probably do help lose heat more slowly.

Finally, Re: mittens what ppl have said is definitely true. However, if you like gloves, but still need the warmth, check out the OR 3-finger high camp glove, it’s the el camino of gloves/mittens. Thumb & index finger are separate for better dexterity & the other 3 fingers are in one “mitten” together. This is almost always the glove I’m skiing in unless it’s really warm, as it has a removable medium weight fleece liner. I also wear a very thin “base layer” liner glove as well. If it’s really cold there’s enough room in the mitten part to pull your index finger out of its separate section and warm up with the rest of your fingers. This is where you can put one of those hand heaters as well.

Good luck teaching your daughter to ski @zz28zz! I can’t wait to do the same. Just keep in mind that it is no fun to learn to ski if you’re cold, uncomfortable, hungry or tired, so frequent check ins, warm up breaks and hot chocolate are your friend!

 

[zz28zz]

Never tried mittens but I do like the idea of having room for a heat pack. The 3 finger glove is an interesting idea.
I've seen some reviews saying sometimes the heat packs get too hot and/or puff up. Other state there's not enough air inside boot to keep heat pack activated. Have you guys experienced any of these issues?

 

[LiquidFeet]

I am now using the toe warmers every day, because my Hotronic wires gave out. They don't adjust as did the Hotronics, but they stay warm all day. There must be just the right amount of oxygen in the boots. It's more than 6 hours of heat. They are warm after I take my feet out of the boots.

I agree, heat packs on top of the boot, on the outside, held there by the bootglove, don't do anything for the feet outside and there is waaay too much oxygen so they burn out in two hours. At least that's what happened when I tried that.

The heat backs in my mittens sometimes get very hot sitting on the bench in the morning. Lots of air getting in there. When I put my hands in, they are very hot. By the time I go outside the excess heat is dissipating, since my hands reduce how much air is getting to them. I usually have two in there against my fingers, and I've never been burned.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Having winter camped at -47c keeping warm in the fingers and toes is about keeping the core and head toasty. The warmer you are able to keep your core the easier it is for fingers and toes to stay warm. Remember, the body protects the brain and core so it will restrict circulation if you core is cold, and open circulation if warm (to cool the core).

After that its usually circulation if you have a poor one you got problems, boots and glove should allow movement. Also look for heat reflective socks and gloves (they have a metallic thread woven in to act as a reflector). Thin and work great if used as a liner.

 

[Bruuuce]

1. For socks, I have it narrowed down to Smartwool PhD medium or the Darn Tough. Anyone owned both to compare? Any others that are warmer?

My favorites are Smartwools, Bridgedales and Point 6.

2. Need a new coat/jacket, any recommendations for 6' 3" guy? Is North Face still near the top of the heap?

Bazillions of choices here. It's all about how warm you are and how much breathability you want. I have a shell (Stio) and an insulated (Flylow). Those two with midlayers work in everything. I've found midlayers to be the key for me.

3. Elec glove liners? Anyone used these for skiing? Will they fit inside my existing gloves or would I need to buy an oversized glove?

That would work depending on the glove. My wife swears by her Volt heated mittens. I just use heat packs as described above.

4. Heat pack/toe warmers? Can they be placed inside a ski boot? Will they work? Sounds very un-comfortable.

I've never been able to get them situated in my boots without bunching. There is probably a trick I don't know about. I use boot gloves and that works until it is brutally cold. I have a pair of heatronic socks for those days.

Thx in adv for any suggestions/recommendations!

Good luck!

 

[Dwight]

The boot gloves are used by many Wisconsin and the U. P. Even toe warmers. You are renting so fit shouldn't be a problem.

The North Face is still good. Check Ebay. My last coat came from Florida, barely used. $50.

What hill are you going too? Right now Temps are warm but fun.

 

[SkiBam]

Other state there's not enough air inside boot to keep heat pack activated. Have you guys experienced any of these issues?

Yes, to the not enough air bit. I tried and tried with the toe warmer things. They would be nice and warm when I started, then while I skied they would lose all their heat. And then, at the end of the day when they were exposed to air again, they warmed up! So, in my case for sure, not enough air in there. I've had heaters in my boots the past four year ago and love them - in fact just moved them to new boots. Batteries still good. Boot gloves were useless for me, and the strap on the bottom kept breaking. I now use the toe warmer thingies in my cross-country boots and they work well there.

 

[mister moose]

My 2₵, although with inflation it's really 8₵...

Jackets:
Lots of good used stuff out there if you want to save $$. Ski swaps in the fall, Ebay anytime. I'd buy (almost) anything well insulated from Descente, Spyder, Phenix, Marmot. What I've seen from Obermeyer, Fly Low, Columbia, seemed less warm. Wind resistance can be pivotal, so that can make it difficult to assess on line if you haven't seen the jacket in person. Zippers have to be lived with daily, be wary of the annoying stiff ones. Some people go the shell route. A down puffer jacket as a layer for sub zero is a wonderful thing.

Mittens/Gloves
I personally have no use for the 3 finger glove. I'm wearing it because its freaking cold out, and so it's big and puffy, and so there is minimal dexterity anyway. It isn't warmer in my view, but it does freeze the index finger quite nicely. Gloves when not too cold (varies by metabolism and brand of glove) and mittens when colder than that. Not knitted mittens, and not Dick's Sporting Goods sale mittens. Marmot Expedition mittens, Black Diamond Mercury, or Free the Powder (Best Deal) will keep you warm.

Electric Glove Liners.
Effective. The battery is in the gauntlet, so it's a little bulky. Fit issues are aft of the wrist, the gloves themselves are fine.

Foot warmers
Why warm the toes when you can warm the whole insole?

These take a little practice to put in without wrinkling/clumping, but they are stiffened enough to go in. Highly recommended. You do need to pump some air in once or twice during the day, just loosen your buckles and lift your heel up a few times. You're going to have a lousy rental fit anyway, might as well be warm. Seriously, they fit in my race fit tight boots. They can fit in yours.

Socks.
I use expensive merino wool socks, and regular thin stretchy synthetic street socks high enough to come up my calf, above the boot shell. I ski in the synthetics in anything above 10 degrees. #1 for me is smooth with no wrinkles or puckers and thin for a precise contact with the boot. I suppose the wool socks are slightly warmer. Slightly. I'd stop worrying too much about brand of socks and go for fit for reasonable $$. If you get those footbeds, you won't need to worry about sock brand. Hot tubs for your feet!

I understand these socks make you a better skier, keep you warmer, and lower your cholesterol.

Not mentioned:
Use a full head liner under your helmet. Tons of designs out there. Use a neck gaitor. (Putting anything under your goggles can created a pathway for moisture and fog/ice up your lenses.) Cover your wrists - blood needs to stay warm on the way to your fingers. Some jackets have nice over-the-thumb wrist cuffs, and most serious gloves/mittens have long gauntlets.

 

[zz28zz]

Thx for all the replies. Lot more choices nowadays. Back when I active, you just bought a goose down jacket, a face mask and googles or dark sunglasses. Fingers and toes froze no matter what you did. Nobody wore helmets. Are those mainly for tree skiing?

What hill are you going too? Right now Temps are warm but fun.

We're staying near Alpine Valley so that one for sure. May peel off to another resort the second day. Devils Head and Trollhaugen appear to be close by but don't know much abt them. Any recommendations? Keep in mind I'll be on the bunny slopes with my daughter most of the time.

 

[Dwight]

From Alpine Valley, Devils Head and Cascade would be the next biggest, just North of Madison. Wilmot is an Epic hill and Grand Geneva is another small hill closest to AV.

Trollhaugen isn't that close, 5 hrs away.

 

[zz28zz]

I was using this as a reference:

Map of Wisconsin Resort Locations | SkiCentral.com

Wisconsin ski resort map, location, directions and distances to nearby Wisconsin resorts.

www.skicentral.com

I thought there was another resort called Mountain something close to where they show Trollhaugen. We're looking for something close to Chicago since others in our party will be driving up from that area.

Are helmets used during ski school? Need to plan for that if they are.

 

[Jilly]

Most snow schools ask for helmets. You can rent them, but yuck!!

 

[zz28zz]

Are rental helmets insulated or just shells? A liner was mentioned prev.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Rental helmets are just like the ones you own. They can be worn on a bare head. I think the comment about a liner meant something like a balaclava, like so, meant to be worn beneath the helmet. On a cold day it's really helpful.