Northern Rockies/Alberta Avalanche at Silver

[Tom K.]

Whitefish guy funds them. The town owes a lot to Mike Goguen.

Seems to be a bit of a controversial guy.

My (not terribly well researched) take is that he's a super rich guy with a super big heart.

 

[Tricia]

I chose not to go to the Slushmans chair at that Gathering because it did not sit right with me. Things are sketchy enough that you need a beacon but somehow not sketchy enough to need a shovel, probes, or experience or training?? Someone told me beacon equipped skiers made it easier for Patrol Sweep or maybe it was to help find injured skiers. Anyways for me it was a case of red flags I chose to not ignore.

The only time that I have worn avy gear was guided cat and heli skiing. I intend to leave it that way.

I recall the time I rode the Shlushmans chair I was having a tough time with the skis that day (found out later that they were railed) so I bailed and never really skied the Shlushmans area. To this day I feel OK about bailing and regrouping.

 

[newfydog]

Real bad day.

You take care Pete, glad to hear you're ok.

 

[Daves not here]

I live in the area but do most of my skiing at Schweitzer. A buddy of mine was there that day and actually over in that vicinity when it happened - though not in the zone. He knew one of unfortunate ones. Hearing him describe the vibe and eeriness on the hill that day is pretty haunting.

Sad news for sure.

 

[Sibhusky]

Seems to be a bit of a controversial guy.

Definitely a lot of stuff happening there that is casting a pall on his image. But he's poured a lot of money into this town with his philanthropy. I don't know him personally, so I can't really decipher how much of the tabloid stuff is true. But apparently he's not what I would look for in a husband. And there seems to be some other issue between him and the chief of police which is concerning no matter who wins. ( I wish we could skip to the end of the book where the mystery writer tells us what really happened. Because it all reads like a future movie script.) The town has benefited, tho, no matter what his antics may be.

 

[LiquidFeet]

^^Well, that sure piques my curiosity. With nothing else to do this moment, I'm wishing there were a link. Got one, @Sibhusky?

 

[Tom Holtmann]

That’s incredible! This reminds me of a question I had, does anyone know if any of the buried skiers were wearing beacons? Curious if the rescue times were with or without.

You can buy a belt with Recco for $45 so if your mountain has Recco capability you there are affordable options if you are worried enough about inbounds avalanches.

 

[Tricia]

You can buy a belt with Recco for $45 so if your mountain has Recco capability you there are affordable options if you are worried enough about inbounds avalanches.

From what I understand, based on conversations with patrollers, Recco is not always helpful because everyone is wearing something with Recco so the signal can be picking up a variety of people helping with the rescue.
Back in Epic days one patroller said you'd be better off putting a dog bone in your pocket. (Not my words)

 

[Tom Holtmann]

Makes you wonder why resorts invest in the Recco system if that is the case.

 

[Slim]

You can buy a belt with Recco for $45 so if your mountain has Recco capability you there are affordable options if you are worried enough about inbounds avalanches.

Hmm, maybe if it’s a very nice belt, but otherwise, $45 is a good part of a beacon purchase too (Recco scanners also pick up Avy beacons).

Then of course the fact that so much other gear, from coats to helmets to boots has dedicated Recco reflectors, and the fact that other items, like metal and electronics (giant smart phones finally good for something) do as well, and it doesn’t seem like the most useful way to spend your money.

 

[Slim]

From what I understand, based on conversations with patrollers, Recco is not always helpful because everyone is wearing something with Recco so the signal can be picking up a variety of people helping with the rescue.
Back in Epic days one patroller said you'd be better off putting a dog bone in your pocket. (Not my words)

From my experience in airports with sniffer dogs, the dog bone won’t help. I have had al kinds of food [sausages) in my bags and the sniffer dogs walk right by.

 

[jmeb]

Makes you wonder why resorts invest in the Recco system if that is the case.

Recco is mostly for body recovery. Not rescues.

Recco is going to be much slower in a rescue scenario. If you want to be saved alive -- a beacon is a far far better choice. They are more accurate, they are carried by most all patrollers and will be on scene immediately.

 

[Tom Holtmann]

From what I understand, based on conversations with patrollers, Recco is not always helpful because everyone is wearing something with Recco so the signal can be picking up a variety of people helping with the rescue.
Back in Epic days one patroller said you'd be better off putting a dog bone in your pocket. (Not my words)

This made me wonder if Recco is totally useless so I did a little digging. This is an interesting article. The last page specifically talks about the use of Recco technology in the presence of various types of interference. The gist seems to be that a searcher skilled in the use of Recco can still be effective but it becomes more difficult. It actually seems like the solution as it relates to other searchers is pretty simple - don't point it towards them and make them stand behind you while you search. More problematic is other types of interference.

No question that transceivers are superior. This was just a low cost alternative.

https://arc.lib.montana.edu//snow-science/objects/ISSW13_paper_P1-34.pdf

They at least do occasionally work:

Recco Saves Life Of Buried Skier Who Was Under The Snow For 40+ Minutes!

A 22 year-old man is lucky to be alive after being buried over 10+ feet below the snow surface for some 40 minutes in Jaun, Switzerland on January 14th. The buried victim was discovered by rescuers thanks to his Recco reflector as well as one very intuitive avalanche dog. The man was skiing a...

unofficialnetworks.com

 

[Sibhusky]

^^Well, that sure piques my curiosity. With nothing else to do this moment, I'm wishing there were a link. Got one, @Sibhusky?

For the most up to date info, Google his name and find an article in the Flathead Beacon from the last few days. I'm not sure how much can be conveyed by any of the recent articles to someone who hasn't been following all this for years. It's difficult to "suss out" where the truth is. I am acquainted with only the police chief (has a locker near me at the mountain). It's always hard with these rich guys to figure out where truth is, because admittedly there's always people trying to get rich off them, but many times they can buy their way out of stuff. With not really knowing the players personally, you end up relying on newspapers for info and they are not always fully informed or unbiased themselves. The Beacon makes an effort.

Edit. Did it for you.

You need two articles.

Whitefish Police Chief Sues Wealthy Philanthropist; Goguen Counters with Allegations of Misconduct - Flathead Beacon

A lawsuit in which the chief of the Whitefish Police Department makes accusations about a wealthy venture capitalist whose philanthropy has spanned the Flathead Valley is raising more questions than it answers, particularly now that the defendant, Michael Goguen, has disavowed the complaint and...

flatheadbeacon.com

California Judge Rules that Woman Extorted Goguen - Flathead Beacon

A California judge has granted Whitefish philanthropist Michael Goguen his second court victory in a legal battle between the venture capitalist and his former mistress, Amber Laurel Baptiste, ruling that Baptiste’s explosive claims that Goguen had sexually and physically abused her and infected...

flatheadbeacon.com

 

[SBrown]

From my experience in airports with sniffer dogs, the dog bone won’t help. I have had al kinds of food [sausages) in my bags and the sniffer dogs walk right by.

They aren't looking for sausages ...

 

[ZionPow]

The patrol that I work for can respond to most inbounds slides within minutes unless it is in hike-to terrain. Hike-to terrain takes more time but we know the quickest way into all slide paths. We practice beacon searches in simulated slide paths regularly and time each other to ensure proficiency. We make it a competition to make it fun but we take our search times very seriously. We usually can signal search, coarse search, fine search, locate, probe and dig up a beacon in a slide path in less than 3 minutes. The key is for us to be notified of a slide in a timely manner if we didn't observe the slide occur. This is why skiing with a partner or group, keeping an eye on each other and calling 911 or patrol immediately if a slide occurs is crucial. As others have said, the best way to be safe is to get formal avy training including partner rescue training. Ski potential avy terrain with partners who are trained and carry their avy equipment. Practice partner rescue skills and encourage your ski partners to practice with you. I personally will not go out on an avy mitigation route with a partner unless I know that person is proficient to rescue me if needed.

We have RECCO detectors at every top shack and we practice finding objects with them. RECCO chips are passive reflectors and are not nearly as quick or accurate to find vs beacons. Beacons transmit a strong signal that is easy to locate by a trained searcher.

We also have avy dogs at the top shacks near our highest risk avy terrain. The dogs are incredible at finding anything buried that has a human scent. We dig dog holes and practice with them every week. The dogs can be dispatched to most in-bounds slide paths quickly unless it is hike-to terrain.

 

[fatbob]

I don't know how to ask anything about this without it seeming like victim blaming so apologies in advance.

Would it be normal to ski such terrain for the first time in the season after a heavy snowfall without wearing transceivers? Seems a lot of faith to place in some ski patrol bombs given that patrol themselves had not even traversed over there?

I ask because I'm guessing at such a place plenty of people skiing advanced terrain also ski backcountry so probably have the kit and some avy training.

 

[fatbob]

You need two articles.

Whitefish Police Chief Sues Wealthy Philanthropist; Goguen Counters with Allegations of Misconduct - Flathead Beacon

A lawsuit in which the chief of the Whitefish Police Department makes accusations about a wealthy venture capitalist whose philanthropy has spanned the Flathead Valley is raising more questions than it answers, particularly now that the defendant, Michael Goguen, has disavowed the complaint and...

flatheadbeacon.com

California Judge Rules that Woman Extorted Goguen - Flathead Beacon

A California judge has granted Whitefish philanthropist Michael Goguen his second court victory in a legal battle between the venture capitalist and his former mistress, Amber Laurel Baptiste, ruling that Baptiste’s explosive claims that Goguen had sexually and physically abused her and infected...

flatheadbeacon.com

Hmm from just that I can see 2 potential paths - the first bit of reading between lines suggests a bit of small town power games and jealousy plus a police dept that might not entirely have their house in order, the other is a deep conspiracy that has successfully fooled successive courts. I know what I'd put probabilities on.

But then I'm biased by the reporting - his ex sounds like a total fruitcake in which case his judgement isn't impeccable either.

 

[Carolinacub]

Just saw a news blurb that they had recovered the remains of the third victim and that they had released the ID of the first two.

 

[Lauren]

Would it be normal to ski such terrain for the first time in the season after a heavy snowfall without wearing transceivers? Seems a lot of faith to place in some ski patrol bombs given that patrol themselves had not even traversed over there?

I ask because I'm guessing at such a place plenty of people skiing advanced terrain also ski backcountry so probably have the kit and some avy training.

I can only answer this for myself, and for the first part of your question...I thought about this type of terrain very differently before I took any formal avalanche training. I am very fresh off of that training, so there's no saying if/when I will become desensitized to it again (which would add discussion to your second statement).

I often took inbounds, open terrain for granted. In a similar way that I read avalanche bulletins...I put a lot of faith and trust into the "experts". If they opened the terrain, there was little risk in my mind. I never tried to understand the snowpack, I didn't know what the major red flags were, and quite frankly, I didn't even know what constituted "avalanche terrain". Furthermore, I didn't know what I didn't know.