oldschoolskier

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
1,876
Location
Ontario Canada
Aside for the DIN factors used to set bindings, one factor that makes a difference is skiing style (rated to level but more towards strength and speed of application).

As an example two skiers at the same level, BSL, Ski, Binding etc., the difference is wt one is 180lbs, one is 130lbs. The lighter skier has a higher DIN setting to avoid pre release. The difference is smoothness vs quickness of impulse.

For the record I’m taking the Zsa Zsa Gabor approach and I’ll be 49 for a while. Just hope
I’m smart enough to know when I need to age up before I break anything.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
22,992
Location
Reno, eNVy
Aside for the DIN factors used to set bindings, one factor that makes a difference is skiing style (rated to level but more towards strength and speed of application).

As an example two skiers at the same level, BSL, Ski, Binding etc., the difference is wt one is 180lbs, one is 130lbs. The lighter skier has a higher DIN setting to avoid pre release. The difference is smoothness vs quickness of impulse.
When you are buying a better binding, your not buying a bigger spring but a better housing.
 

pchewn

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
767
Location
Beaverton OR
? Wouldn't the heavier skier have the higher setting?
It was an example to illustrate that "real life" may not match the DIN initial setting chart. The lighter skier NEEDED a higher setting due to ski style/technique more prone to pre-release. The lighter skier CHOOSING to ski more aggressively and then choosing to set bindings higher to avoid pre-release.
 

Andy Mink

I am a half fast skier.
Moderator
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,526
Location
Reno
It was an example to illustrate that "real life" may not match the DIN initial setting chart. The lighter skier NEEDED a higher setting due to ski style/technique more prone to pre-release. The lighter skier CHOOSING to ski more aggressively and then choosing to set bindings higher to avoid pre-release.
Got it.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,615
Location
Boston Suburbs
I didn't turn mine down right away at 50, but I did at 60. I also used the empirical approach -- turn them down till you release too easily, and then turn them back up a smidge.
I used to ski at 8. I now ski at 6.5. My come off pretty easily when they should, but never come off when they shouldn't.
 

oldschoolskier

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
1,876
Location
Ontario Canada
When you are buying a better binding, your not buying a bigger spring but a better housing.
This true most of the time, however with Look (and equivalents) PX14 (PX12) and PX15 toes are different in mechanical design (pivots have similar issues) 14’s require a higher setting for me than the 15’s to hold. In the 14’s and lower the release is sudden at a certain point, the 15’s the release is gradual because of the design which I find has better pre-release avoidance characteristics.

As to construction materials, yes the 15’s are also metal vs the plastic of 14’s.

It is sometimes the design of the binding mechanics that make a difference in release and pre-release settings.

I paraphrase something I believe Rick Howell wrote a while ago in a post, good binding design DIN defines pre-release hold which allows lower values for regular hold. Interesting concept.
 

François Pugh

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
2,731
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
So, 52, level 2 skier, 5'9" 190lbs...switched paperwork from a level 2 skier to a level 3 skier to have DIN set to 6 instead of 5...Do most of you agree with this decision, don't agree, or it won't be a big enough difference to really matter?
I'm in full agreement.
I set my release setting through years of trial and error. I have it release with just enough force to cause a bit of pain for a few hours, but no permanent injury (nothing I would notice the next day), and not release when I'm running up a hill doing a side step (to get first tracks). Turns out to be 8.5, which is between III and III+ for me. Problem is that trial and error took place over many years of me weighing 165 lbs. I went down to 122 lbs in the last few months. Should I lower the DIN, or is my bone density still good?
 

no edge

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
May 17, 2017
Posts
282
I too am in an arrested state (of development). I am 66, 5'10" and 185#. I have serious concerns about premature release. I ski aggressively, ski quite fast and ski bumps and woods. With my past concussions and other health issues, I always worry about my ski coming off. My din is set at 8.5 or maybe a touch higher.

I do get a release check and request careful attention to the forward pressure. Two seasons ago I demoed skis and the rep didn't set the forward pressure. I should have checked it myself. When I released it was one nasty fall. Got banged up but seemed to recover... except for the head.

Everyone in this thread is skiing with much lower settings than mine. I should probably revisit this.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
22,992
Location
Reno, eNVy
This true most of the time, however with Look (and equivalents) PX14 (PX12) and PX15 toes are different in mechanical design (pivots have similar issues) 14’s require a higher setting for me than the 15’s to hold. In the 14’s and lower the release is sudden at a certain point, the 15’s the release is gradual because of the design which I find has better pre-release avoidance characteristics.

As to construction materials, yes the 15’s are also metal vs the plastic of 14’s.

It is sometimes the design of the binding mechanics that make a difference in release and pre-release settings.

I paraphrase something I believe Rick Howell wrote a while ago in a post, good binding design DIN defines pre-release hold which allows lower values for regular hold. Interesting concept.
Yes it is true most of the time, The Look Pivot 12 and 14 are the same binding, there is no reason at all to go to the 14 and if you need that higher setting, yo should be in the 18..only of there was a 15. ;) . But there is a huge difference between a Tyrolia Attack 11 and 12/13 but not as great of a jump going to the Attack 16. Salomon Sth213 to the 16 is a reasonable jump that most won't notice. Hell, @Daron Rahlves has the Sth2 13 on some of his skis.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
22,992
Location
Reno, eNVy
One of the features that the Look tech rep's use to push was that the binding could be skied at a lower setting than was normal. They claimed it was because Look has a greater amount of elasticity in the toe and would return to center after an impact that would cause other bindings to release.
That is true for most longitudinal toes, they have more elasticity. The same with the Driver toe from Salomon/Atomic.
 

Dakine

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
567
Location
Tip of the Mitt
I have read that a 4-12 binding set in the middle of its range has less elasticity or snap back than a 6-16 binding set at the bottom of its range.
This makes some mechanical sense since the spring is further from coil bind on the 6-16 but I really wonder if it is true.
The better housing required for 6-16 bindings is the main reason I prefer them.
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
2,132
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
I'm in full agreement.
I set my release setting through years of trial and error. I have it release with just enough force to cause a bit of pain for a few hours, but no permanent injury (nothing I would notice the next day), and not release when I'm running up a hill doing a side step (to get first tracks). Turns out to be 8.5, which is between III and III+ for me. Problem is that trial and error took place over many years of me weighing 165 lbs. I went down to 122 lbs in the last few months. Should I lower the DIN, or is my bone density still good?
40+ lbs of weight loss is significant, especially if you were not overweight to begin with and you have mentioned some health issues in another thread. So while I can't answer your bone density question, I will suggest that at your lighter weight, you may not now be skiing as fast or as aggressively as in the past.

Imo, you should at the very least revisit the DIN Chart, plugging in your new weight to see what number comes up.
 

Pequenita

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Posts
616
Should I lower the DIN, or is my bone density still good?
Without actually getting yourself scanned, the general proposition is that lighter people have less bone density (or, need to work harder to have a high bone density). The reasoning is that weight resistance is what helps maintain density, regardless of age. Heavier people carry more weight; therefore, they tend to have better bone density than lighter people. Of course, you could be lifting weights like an beast and doing other exercises that promote bone density more than when you were 40 lbs heavier. It's all a crap shoot until it's measured.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
Skier
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
2,994
Location
NJ
That is true for most longitudinal toes, they have more elasticity. The same with the Driver toe from Salomon/Atomic.
I was just wondering how many new bindings have the same internal workings as the old Look toes? Seems like some of the toes have new cosmetic appearance but if you look inside the mechanics are the same.
 

Doug Briggs

Skiing the powder
Industry Insider
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Posts
4,114
Location
Breckenridge, CO
I'm just going to throw this out there since I don't think it has been mentioned in a while. I'm not directing this to anyone in particular...

Setting your DIN above what Skier Type III+ setting would require is quite risky. Generally properly adjusted bindings release properly and don't pre-release as much as people would like to think. Often ice or snow on the boot will create a problem and should not be compensated for with a screwdriver. Much more frequently bad technique is the issue. Again a screwdriver won't fix that.

It is important to note the part of the binding that releases (is the heel open?) and objectively consider why the binding would have released. Was I off balance? Did I hit something? Don't jump to the conclusion that the binding is a fault. Consider all possibilities.
 

Brock Tice

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Posts
312
I have seen a shop hand a screwdriver to a guy that was over 50 and wanted his bindings higher than the chart. Seems like a good compromise to me. The chart says I'm an 8.5 so that is what I set them at. Apparently if over 50 that would put me at 7.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,003
Location
The Bull City
I can't remember the last time I lost a ski during a move when I wish it hadn't come off. Skiing mostly Salomon 900s and some Look and Rossi Pivots.. but mostly 900s. Can't say "pre release" without laughing though. Never seems to happen when skiing though..
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,003
Location
The Bull City
I'm just going to throw this out there since I don't think it has been mentioned in a while. I'm not directing this to anyone in particular...

Setting your DIN above what Skier Type III+ setting would require is quite risky. Generally properly adjusted bindings release properly and don't pre-release as much as people would like to think. Often ice or snow on the boot will create a problem and should not be compensated for with a screwdriver. Much more frequently bad technique is the issue. Again a screwdriver won't fix that.

It is important to note the part of the binding that releases (is the heel open?) and objectively consider why the binding would have released. Was I off balance? Did I hit something? Don't jump to the conclusion that the binding is a fault. Consider all possibilities.
Incorrect forward pressure will totally make a binding behave like the DIN is set too low. Definitely double check that before touching anything else!
 

Wilhelmson

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
1,668
Or like last year when we figured out my kid was double ejecting due to improper shop set afd height.
This is why for him i go level iii din then dial it back a half notch.

Some of us would end up in the infirmary
 
Top