Auto reduction in DIN setting on bindings over 50 y/o?

[Scruffy]

No one else set's their own DIN? Charts be damned.

 

[GregK]

I changed my setting this season to a 6, down from 6.5, since I've finally recognized I am actually getting old (and yes, heavier). Then a ski pre-released for the first time ever on me the other day. I've never had that happen before.

I've decided to put the setting back up. Going to my mountain's repair shop was interesting. It seems that the chart says they must set the bindings at 6.0 for L3 and 7.0 for L3+. I guess I'm going for a setting of 7 since the pre-release happened at 6. They refused to set them at 6.5, my previous setting for years.

Question: only one set of bindings pre-released. Should I assume that I should set them all up at 7.0 since I had one that pre-released? I was making fine turns at high speed when said binding (Attack 13) decided there was a problem and let loose. Not all my bindings are Attack 13s.

I’d put money on the fact that your AFD height is low causing the pre-release as Attacks/Griffons etc are commonly very not adjusted properly.

Put your boot in the binding and then pull/push the rear cuff of the boot back(HARD) to wheelie the toe up to remove any slack and then try to move a business card under the toe. Adjust the AFD up until the business card resists when you try to move it around under the toe. You might not be able to with no force of the boot cuff, but you will with pressure on the back of the boot to wheelie the toe.

Very commonly missed step that can become worse with toe sole wear. Check to make sure your forward pressure tab stripes are also in the correct range on the heel too as this can cause pre-releases as well.

 

[cantunamunch]

You wouldn't want to go in bumps that way.

No doubt.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I changed my setting this season to a 6, down from 6.5, since I've finally recognized I am actually getting old (and yes, heavier). Then a ski pre-released for the first time ever on me the other day. I've never had that happen before.

I've decided to put the setting back up. Going to my mountain's repair shop was interesting. It seems that the chart says they must set the bindings at 6.0 for L3 and 7.0 for L3+. I guess I'm going for a setting of 7 since the pre-release happened at 6. They refused to set them at 6.5, my previous setting for years.

Question: only one set of bindings pre-released. Should I assume that I should set them all up at 7.0 since I had one that pre-released? I was making fine turns at high speed when said binding (Attack 13) decided there was a problem and let loose. Not all my bindings are Attack 13s.

A binding's DIN numbers don't always correspond to what the Vermont Calibrator determines is the proper DIN number for the desired release. Which is to say 'initial' settings (the DIN you are according to the chart) are not always the same as the 'final' settings. Which is to say, you may require a DIN of 6, but to get the binding to release at the torque values associated with that DIN and your BSL, the DIN indicator on the binding may be higher or lower. That is why calibration is important. Once you know how far off your binding's DIN is compared to the actual 'final' DIN, then you can adjust knowing what the plus or minus amount for that particular unit is.

I’d put money on the fact that your AFD height is low causing the pre-release as Attacks/Griffons etc are commonly very not adjusted properly.

Put your boot in the binding and then pull/push the rear cuff of the boot back(HARD) to wheelie the toe up to remove any slack and then try to move a business card under the toe. Adjust the AFD up until the business card resists when you try to move it around under the toe. You might not be able to with no force of the boot cuff, but you will with pressure on the back of the boot to wheelie the toe.

Very commonly missed step that can become worse with toe sole wear. Check to make sure your forward pressure tab stripes are also in the correct range on the heel too as this can cause pre-releases as well.

A slightly loose AFD setting won't contribute to pre-release unless you are considering that the looseness of the boot in the binding might make it more susceptible to release due to decambering. Thas happens when the boot actually slips out of the toe or heel, not as a result of the binding mechanism releasing but because the toe or heel wings simply aren't over the lug of the boot.

Even then, forward pressure has a much greater influence on retention than AFD height. A too tight AFD setting could easily result in incorrect release.

 

[eok]

Where are the new looks lacking?

Well, I haven't tried any of the recent models. That said, compared to the old N77, my feelings about the recent Looks:

- I do appreciate the improvements to the heel design
- I expected a better update to the turntable design
- I don't like the toe & AFD design(s)

I remain disappointed Look didn't develop a heel+turntable design that allows lateral release at heel (inside edge) like Knee or Howell.

I've been sticking with Tyrolia & Salomon bindings the past several years.

 

[PinnacleJim]

It isn't a 1 DIN reduction, it is a one ROW reduction on the chart. That reduction can be .5, 1 or 1.5 DIN depending where on the chart you start.

Thanks for clarifying that. My reduction is 1.0 for where I am on the chart, but didn't realize it could vary that much.

 

[eok]

No one else set's their own DIN? Charts be damned.

I bump mine up 0.5 DIN. I'm in my 60s and not quite a type III skier now - but I'm fit and have great bone density.

 

[GregK]

[QUOTE=" slightly loose AFD setting won't contribute to pre-release unless you are considering that the looseness of the boot in the binding might make it more susceptible to release due to decambering. Thas happens when the boot actually slips out of the toe or heel, not as a result of the binding mechanism releasing but because the toe or heel wings simply aren't over the lug of the boot.
[/QUOTE]

Correct. A low AFD combined with a twisting maneuver like a nose butter, very commonly cause a boot to pop out. Daily occurrence on Newschoolers.com that is cured by correcting the AFD height.

 

[x10003q]

I have been 49 for years. I figure when my squat levels drop I will drop the DIN. A hard date drop is stunod.

 

[Pequenita]

Well i weigh 175 - right on the line between two settings so i am grouped with 200 lb people. But 8 works fine for me. Its not exact. Why not go 1/2 between to split the difference?

I've done this. It helps psychologically.

No one else set's their own DIN? Charts be damned.

I've turned the screw a couple of times on each ski if I've been pre-releasing, but the visual indicators can be way off. I went in to my shop a couple of weeks ago because the visual indicator on a new pair of skis/bindings was 3 ticks lower than what I know I come out as on the chart. Three is not insubstantial. When I went into the shop, they confirmed that they set me at the DIN I believed I was set at, and it was just showing as something way off. And I haven't pre-released. If I turned the screw enough to get the visual indicator to show the number I'm "supposed" to be at, I think it would be bad news in a crash.

 

[Philpug]

Well, I haven't tried any of the recent models. That said, compared to the old N77, my feelings about the recent Looks:

- I do appreciate the improvements to the heel design
- I expected a better update to the turntable design
- I don't like the toe & AFD design(s)

I remain disappointed Look didn't develop a heel+turntable design that allows lateral release at heel (inside edge) like Knee or Howell.

I've been sticking with Tyrolia & Salomon bindings the past several years.

OK, you completely lost me. You find them lacking yet you haven't tried them. As far as the turntable design it is not capable of a lateral release a la the other bindings mentioned. Look hasn't developed a lateral heel design and neither have the two brands, Tyrolia and Salomon that you have beed sticking too. Maybe I missed it, but what exactly about the old N77 do you like that the newer bindings (that you have yet to try) have?

 

[crgildart]

I'm not fat. I'm big boned!

 

[LiquidFeet]

Do your work regulations as an instructor prevent you from using a screwdriver and setting it at 6.5?

Yes.

 

[David]

My shop has a DIN range and they set it at the top of the range and then I adjust it where I want it. It's still a hit less than it was in my 30's but I don't pre-release.

 

[pchewn]

A difference between DIN 5 and DIN 6 settings in real life translates to a 15% difference in actual torque to release the bindings. Your leg-damage value cannot be reasonably estimated within 15%. The type of skiing you do will certainly change well over 15% in a single day of skiing various runs. The charts are to help you get somewhere in the right ballpark and then you can adjust as your skiing dictates. I usually lower the setting on my bindings and try on purpose to get some pre-releases in safe areas. If it doesn't pre-release, then I leave the setting.....

 

[TimothyD11]

So, 52, level 2 skier, 5'9" 190lbs...switched paperwork from a level 2 skier to a level 3 skier to have DIN set to 6 instead of 5...Do most of you agree with this decision, don't agree, or it won't be a big enough difference to really matter?

 

[eok]

OK, you completely lost me. You find them lacking yet you haven't tried them. As far as the turntable design it is not capable of a lateral release a la the other bindings mentioned. Look hasn't developed a lateral heel design and neither have the two brands, Tyrolia and Salomon that you have beed sticking too. Maybe I missed it, but what exactly about the old N77 do you like that the newer bindings (that you have yet to try) have?

I believe I was pretty up front about not having ever used the newer Look bindings yet communicating my *feelings* about them.

I used the N77s and liked them a lot. Haven't used the newer models, so my *feelings* about them are just based on looking them over in shops.

Yes, I know Look's current turntable design is not capable of lateral release and neither are most other brands. But seeing as you want me to comment on all brands now: "I remain disappointed Look, Salomon, Marker, Tyrolia, etc, have not developed heels with lateral release like Howell and Knee".

I'm out.

 

[Shawn C.]

I dialed mine back a few clicks this year after a bad fall and season-ending injury last Jan. I also turned 50 in the interim. If nothing else, I felt more at ease getting back on snow this year. No pre-release problems yet so that is my experience for what it's worth. Had I not had that injury I would no doubt left them as is at the higher settings.

 

[Doug Briggs]

So, 52, level 2 skier, 5'9" 190lbs...switched paperwork from a level 2 skier to a level 3 skier to have DIN set to 6 instead of 5...Do most of you agree with this decision, don't agree, or it won't be a big enough difference to really matter?

You are making this 'paper' adjustment to compensate for the seemingly arbitrary age adjustment, so you are doing exactly what I suggested.

 

[jmills115]

I'm not fat. I'm big boned!

With a sweet spirit