No ad! Like a long version of Russ's Street or Burma Road with fewer bodies.
And that’s only from the mid station to the bottom. Though to be fair, that mid station is a bit more than halfway up the mountain.
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International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) Austria vs North America
And that’s only from the mid station to the bottom. Though to be fair, that mid station is a bit more than halfway up the mountain.
Not quite what I experienced. There were ropes blocking entry we asked about. Patrol said they simply hadn't inspected it yet so it was blocked, but we were free to ski it if we liked. They hadn't deemed it safe/unsafe yet.
Which would make it back country, insurance-wise.
Oh, yep, 100%. Just clarifying that sometimes a rope like that might mean "deemed unsafe" and sometimes it might simply mean "TBD" (To Be Determined).
Lack of challenging ungroomed runs?
There are really steep runs in almost any European resort. For sure steeper than any Colorado resort, and long.
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Not that are avalanche controlled.
Yes, there is far far more insane terrain that you are free to ski off lifts in Europe than the US. But they do not offer the same levels of mitigation of avalanche terrain. Even the Olympic downhill runs at European resorts don't compare in steepness to things like CBs North Face.
There are big differences between Ueropean contries. In France, may black runs are ungroomed, but not all. In the other Alpine countries, all black, red and blue runs are usually groomed (during a storm, the blues are groomed thoughout the day in many cases, to get beginners home with their legs still attached) ;'ski routes' or 'itiniaries' are ungroomed, but avy-controlled and patrolled when open (and within 25 m left and right of the diamond-shaped markers).
Everything else: back country.
Everything else: back country.
Not to mention Colorado doesn’t exactly set the record for steep even by US standard.
The more common threat is unmarked hazards. There's a lot of terrain where the avalanche danger is usually pretty low. But, you still have to scope out your lines to ensure that you don't ski off something or fall into something, or even just hit some rocks hiding under the surface. Avalanches are still a big threat, but you encounter unmarked hazards much more frequently.
Even though skiing ungroomed terrain in Europe is more dangerous and requires more thought and planning, I still prefer it to skiing in CO and UT. It feels like I get more turns on untouched snow in the Alps than I do in the US.
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Because there’re far fewer skiers skiing off-piste due to the perceived danger?
I think it's a combination of factors. First, the ski areas I go to are enormous if you include the lift-served off-piste terrain, so there are probably fewer skiers per acre. Then, you've got a smaller percentage of people with the skills/mindset to go more than a little bit off the side of the piste. Then, there's the added danger.
All together, it makes skiing like this easier for me in resorts in the Alps (not my video)
The footage from the lifts doesn't show some of the unmarked cliffs and gullies in that part of the area. Also, you don't get a sense of just how many rocks are hiding just under the surface in certain places. A lot of that terrain faces the sun in the afternoon, so the snow tends to be a bit shallow in that particular part of the area. This video was obviously taken the morning after a dump.
You can hear that the guy hits a couple of rocks. And at the 2:00 mark, you can see that he almost skis over a drop that he didn't see coming, even though he was on some fairly mellow terrain.
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Agree with my namesake @Jacob -- more terrain, less people. Maybe not in the biggest most iconic destinations, but surely in "mid sized" resorts in Europe that are bigger than most anything in lift-served terrain in the US.
Here are a couple of photos from just the top 3rd of my first run in Europe. This was a 15 second skate from the top of a t-bar and fed down directly to the bottom lift.
Or take this lift which looks pretty small and unnoteworthy on the trail map. This is the 2 days after a storm. Still tracks to be found. Notice how few people were out on a picture perfect Friday in early March.
Or finally -- when this is about 1/3rd of the mountain served by 1 50 or 60 person tram -- it takes a long time to ski. For size reference, this hill makes Jackson feel like Vail.
Here are a couple of photos from just the top 3rd of my first run in Europe. This was a 15 second skate from the top of a t-bar and fed down directly to the bottom lift.
Or take this lift which looks pretty small and unnoteworthy on the trail map. This is the 2 days after a storm. Still tracks to be found. Notice how few people were out on a picture perfect Friday in early March.
Or finally -- when this is about 1/3rd of the mountain served by 1 50 or 60 person tram -- it takes a long time to ski. For size reference, this hill makes Jackson feel like Vail.
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I wouldn't recommend someone like the OP to ski off piste or duck ropes without a guide in Europe. You can quickly end up in an area with zero cell coverage and no clear indicators on where you should go next to avoid going over a cliff. You might find that those tracks you followed disappear, or end with a steep hike up over a ridge requiring climbing gear... or any other number of ridiculous things - like parachuting over a cliff.
If you ski a lot of back country in US and have avalanche training, then you have the knowledge to assess whether you can go off piste (safely) with other knowledgeable friends. Such a person knows more about the potential hazards than the typical inbounds-only skier.
That all said, the off piste terrain around St. Anton is amazing. I hired a guide for a day and it was definitely worth the money. I have zero back country experience otherwise. There is no way I would have been able to cover the ground we did without the guide.
If you ski a lot of back country in US and have avalanche training, then you have the knowledge to assess whether you can go off piste (safely) with other knowledgeable friends. Such a person knows more about the potential hazards than the typical inbounds-only skier.
That all said, the off piste terrain around St. Anton is amazing. I hired a guide for a day and it was definitely worth the money. I have zero back country experience otherwise. There is no way I would have been able to cover the ground we did without the guide.
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Well sort of, but as anything off the piste is, offpiste, there’s plenty of places you can see the whole thing. No need for “if you go off piste you will get lost or die”. Ropes are pretty rare, don’t know about Austria, so if you see one it’s a bad idea to go beyond unless you know. But that’s a bad idea out west, esp places like Grand Targhee, where someone fell 240ft while inside the rope.
This is off piste, perfectly fine - at that time.
How do you know that?
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How do you know you won’t get hit by an asteroid when you step outside? Or even inside.
The pisteurs usually do avi control on terrain like that to prevent damage to the lift towers. Also, that face probably gets skied regularly since it’s right under the lift, which means it’s less likely to have layers forming on it. Plus, there are no hazards that can’t be seen from above.
So unless the avalanche danger for the area has been raised to 4 for some reason (heavy snowfall or significant warming), then it’s probably safe. There’s still a risk of a slide given the angle of the slope, but it’s most likely small. The bigger danger is the risk of catching an edge and crashing into one of those rocks in the middle of the slope.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. It was a serious question. In my very limited experience skiing in Europe, there were runs like this that were unmarked that I did ski for similar reasons as you note. Especially if I saw others on it as well - which in itself is not enough to make it 'safe' enough.
If something looks really good, and no one else is on it, you need to have a good reason and/or sufficient experience to assume it is actually safe. For inbounds skiing in US, I simply don't think about any of this since it is all patrolled. And I am not up early enough to be first one down.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. It was a serious question. In my very limited experience skiing in Europe, there were runs like this that were unmarked that I did ski for similar reasons as you note. Especially if I saw others on it as well - which in itself is not enough to make it 'safe' enough.
If something looks really good, and no one else is on it, you need to have a good reason and/or sufficient experience to assume it is actually safe. For inbounds skiing in US, I simply don't think about any of this since it is all patrolled. And I am not up early enough to be first one down.
I understand. I grew up in the US, so I had to learn all that when I moved to the UK and started skiing in the Alps. The good thing when you start evaluating the terrain you're skiing is that you get better at figuring out which terrain will have the best conditions. You become more aware of exposure to wind and sun as well as the temperatures at various elevations, which makes it easier to find the Goldilocks zones.