International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) Australia and New Zealand Snow Season 2019

[Jack skis]

Can't remember how long ago it was, but G. and I went to NZ to visit my brother, his wife, and adult daughter who all lived in Christchurch. It was late August or early September so we took our ski boots, ski pants, and a parka each since we'd heard of skiing there. Took a public bus to Wanaka, stayed in a B &B, and used vans for travel to Cardrona and Treble Cone. Turned out to have good snow, sunshine and great scenery, the rental skis weren't great but we made do. The Norwegian Ski Team was training in the area, watching them was a bonus for racing fans like us. When back in Christchurch we got a van that picked up us at the house for the trip up to Mt. Hutt. Again good snow, sunshine and great scenery.Tony the van driver was most entertaining as he gave us a corner by corner (and there are many of them) commentary on vehicles that had flown off the shelf road we were on. Oh yeah, background music was Talking Heads up and down the road.. The area had a cafeteria for lunch with most of the food aimed at the predominately Japanese skiers on the slopes that day. Their ski clothing was fantastic, patterns galore. We probably lucked out as we went with no ski reports or advice from any NZ skiers, but came away with great memories. Before cell phones were common so we just skied and made mental notes. For us it was a return to what we enjoyed skiing in the US 20 years earlier as far as lifts, snow conditions, and other amenities were concerned. Only regrets were that we didn't stay longer, ski more areas, or have a chance to return.

 

[James]

Isn't that pretty standard for New England though? Seems like I hear that every season is unusual.

The devil is in the details. Warming is usual. The unusual part this year was the frequency of warming. Like it snows, then next day or within 2 days it gets warm and melts, and rains. Then very cold. Then repeat. That was unusual. Usually, you'd have more cold time in between the warm.

This years cycle ruined woods skiing for long stretches.

November was totally unusual. Amazing skiing. I drove up seemingly in every snowstorm. One was a 10 hour affair instead of 4.

So, yes, usually the weather sucks, but it's how unusual it is that matters. Sounds somewhat like Australia/NZ though that may be more like the mid-atlantic.

 

[Wilhelmson]

How are they with the snow making down there? Is there a particular popular holiday that the resorts try to open the mountain for? With Christmas in December most places around here try to have enough acreage to handle the crowds.

 

[NZRob]

How are they with the snow making down there? Is there a particular popular holiday that the resorts try to open the mountain for? With Christmas in December most places around here try to have enough acreage to handle the crowds.

Snow-making is ubiquitous on the larger commercial areas now, pretty extensive at the Queenstown and Wanaka ski areas, Mt Hutt and the North Island areas. Many of the smaller commercial areas have some as well. It makes for slightly earlier openings and gives some certainty to main trails when we are waiting for snow, and also in spring. Snow making has made a big difference to our seasons, especially at lower elevations.

The major holiday target for ski areas is the July 2-week school holidays which start in early July. They are a good money spinner for the ski areas, which is why there is always nervousness at this time of year waiting to see whether Ullr plays ball or not. There is also a 2-week school holiday that starts in late September - that one is more of a target for the North Island areas as they go later into the year due to the nature of the snow-bearing weather systems over the North Island.

 

[NZRob]

Can't remember how long ago it was, but G. and I went to NZ to visit my brother, his wife, and adult daughter who all lived in Christchurch. It was late August or early September so we took our ski boots, ski pants, and a parka each since we'd heard of skiing there. Took a public bus to Wanaka, stayed in a B &B and, and used vans for travel to Cardrona and Treble Cone. Turned out to have good snow, sunshine and great scenery, the rental skis weren't great but we made do. The Norwegian Ski Team was training in the area, watching them was a bonus for racing fans like us. When back in Christchurch we got a van that picked up us at the house for the trip up to Mt. Hutt. Again good snow, sunshine and great scenery.Tony the van driver was most entertaining as he gave us a corner by corner (and there are many of them) commentary on vehicles that had flown off the shelf road we were on. Oh yeah, background music was Talking Heads up and down the road.. The area had a cafeteria for lunch with most of the food aimed at the predominately Japanese skiers on the slopes that day. Their ski clothing was fantastic, patterns galore. We probably lucked out as we went with no ski reports or advice from any NZ skiers, but came away with great memories. Before cell phones were common so we just skied and made mental notes. For us it was a return to what we enjoyed skiing in the US 20 years earlier as far as lifts, snow conditions, and other amenities were concerned. Only regrets were that we didn't stay longer, ski more areas, or have a chance to return.

Great story! I learned to ski at Mt Hutt, and the club fields around Canterbury...,everyone has a story about the Mt Hutt access road! Try and get back there every year - the road hasn't changed LOL

 

[sbooker]

Note the Snow Gums. You can only ski amongst them in Australia.

 

[peterm]

Nice day at Soho Basin (next to Cardrona) last year.

 

[Marty McSly]

How are they with the snow making down there? Is there a particular popular holiday that the resorts try to open the mountain for? With Christmas in December most places around here try to have enough acreage to handle the crowds.

Opening weekend for Australian resorts is the Queen's Birthday long weekend, the 2nd weekend in June. But if snow conditions permit, resorts have on occasion opened a week early.

Perisher opened a week early this year, and is planning to have 20 of 47 lifts running over the Queen's Birthday weekend.

On the other hand, last year Perisher opened with only the Village 8-pack and a carpet running, and a 20 metre wide strip of man-made.

 

[James]

Where are these rope tows? They look interesting. Do you buy them at the mt, they loan them or what?

 

[Wasatchman]

My favorite New Zealand ski field is Treble Cone!

 

[dbostedo]

^^^
When I visited Queenstown in the summer, it made me want to go back and ski that area. Looks very cool.

 

[Stacks]

Where are these rope tows? They look interesting. Do you buy them at the mt, they loan them or what?

Locals/regulars have their own but you can hire them there too. Need to get glove protectors or have old Kincos as the rope tows will destroy gloves. Rope tows are mainly on the Canterbury club fields. Keeps the crowds down but are a peculiar art/skill to develop. The secret is to let the harness take all the weight otherwise you end up with very 'shaky' legs at the top. Respect to the Utuber's Kingswood skis, Aotearoa NZ finest.

 

[Stacks]

^^^
When I visited Queenstown in the summer, it made me want to go back and ski that area. Looks very cool.

They say on a big pow day it can't be beaten, sadly never had that and it is universally known as 'Concrete Peak'

 

[NZRob]

My favorite New Zealand ski field is Treble Cone!

It's awesome - great snow and terrain....and seems to be getting less crowded by the year as the crowds flock to Cardrona and the expansion going on there.

 

[Stacks]

It's awesome - great snow and terrain....and seems to be getting less crowded by the year as the crowds flock to Cardrona and the expansion going on there.

TC is trying to price itself out of reach of just about everyone $150 day pass now and has got rid of all the 'deals' that used to make it almost doable. Has upset quite a few people in the process but I hear it's still packed. It needs someone to take it over who knows what they're doing. There's serious underinvestment in the infrastructure. They charge like a top end 'resort' but the facilities are like a club field. It's only saving grace is the terrain and that is dependent on new snow.

 

[Wasatchman]

TC changed management recently and my understanding is that they are trying to position themselves as a premium resort.

Notable changes last year are better food at cafeteria and free shuttle from town to the top (or more accurately to the base of the ski field).

They are in a tough spot as I heard they don't really make any money and Cardy gets much more of the traffic (especially families) with better facilities and better terrain for beginners and intermediate. In particular, TC's terrain is absolutely terrible for beginners.

So TC is in a tough spot financially, and accordingly I can see why they made the strategic decision to try and position as premium or geared more to the ski enthusiast.

But I agree with @Stacks they might have taken things a bit too far with pricing. And I particularly disagree that they have eliminated discounts to ski industry employees like those working at ski shops, etc. I think it's important to maintain that Goodwill and also now those people are much less likely to recommend TC to tourists.

Other than very high season/peak days, TC is not crowded at all. I think @NZRob has it right, Cardy is increasingly taking share from TC.

They need to tweak their strategy, but I can also see why they are going the premium route even if they perhaps have gone a little too far. One thing that is a fantastic deal at TC in my opinion is ski lessons relative to the quality of instructors they have.

TC is a very interesting business case to me. So much potential, but how do you best untap that potential given current financial situation, and nearby Cardy in a much better situation with casual skiers plus the new expansion that Cardy has coming will only up that competitive factor?

 

[Stacks]

TC changed management recently and my understanding is that they are trying to position themselves as a premium resort.

Notable changes last year are better food at cafeteria and free shuttle from town to the top (or more accurately to the base of the ski field).

They are in a tough spot as I heard they don't really make any money and Cardy gets much more of the traffic (especially families) with better facilities and better terrain for beginners and intermediate. In particular, TC's terrain is absolutely terrible for beginners.

So TC is in a tough spot financially, and accordingly I can see why they made the strategic decision to try and position as premium or geared more to the ski enthusiast.

But I agree with @Stacks they might have taken things a bit too far with pricing. And I particularly disagree that they have eliminated discounts to ski industry employees like those working at ski shops, etc. I think it's important to maintain that Goodwill and also now those people are much less likely to recommend TC to tourists.

Other than very high season/peak days, TC is not crowded at all. I think @NZRob has it right, Cardy is increasingly taking share from TC.

They need to tweak their strategy, but I can also see why they are going the premium route even if they perhaps have gone a little too far. One thing that is a fantastic deal at TC in my opinion is ski lessons relative to the quality of instructors they have.

TC is a very interesting business case to me. So much potential, but how do you best untap that potential given current financial situation, and nearby Cardy in a much better situation with casual skiers plus the new expansion that Cardy has coming will only up that competitive factor?

I've taken a few school groups to TC so I know what you mean about terrible for beginners. On a big pow day it's still crazy busy. The queue and wait for the Saddle chair is impossible. I think there's room for expansion into the Hollywood Bowl at the moment with only two lifts it can really limit things. Need more investment, a gondola up would be good, the road and parking ain't great.

 

[Wasatchman]

I've taken a few school groups to TC so I know what you mean about terrible for beginners. On a big pow day it's still crazy busy. The queue and wait for the Saddle chair is impossible. I think there's room for expansion into the Hollywood Bowl at the moment with only two lifts it can really limit things. Need more investment, a gondola up would be good, the road and parking ain't great.

The road up and the parking up at the base is terrible! That's why I think it was really good that they started offering free shuttles last year. Employees told me the reason they keep the road gravel (metal as you kiwis like to say) is that paving it would make it even more treacherous with ice. Not sure if true, but it seems like it would cost a fortune to upgrade. And I hear you, expanding Hollywood bowl or putting in some sort of lift/gondola so you don't have to hike out of the Motatapu Chutes would be awesome. But the cost to do that would be high for terrain that is geared toward advanced/expert only. Maybe some sort of T-bar to start with instead of a full-on lift/gondola?

TC is such an interesting business case. So much potential, but chicken and the egg. They currently barely break even from my understanding and don't have the money for large investment. If TC did do bigger investment, would the cost justify any extra business they'd get, and as you say, they are already pricing themselves at the high end of the market as it is, with Cardy expansion giving them even more competition in future.

TC is one of those rare exceptions where I probably wouldn't be angry if a Vail or Alterra purchased them, but I don't see TC fitting the mold for either company. Probably too small a market to matter, no real opportunity for all that much ancillary revenue (no lodging), and not sure it would really matter to enough people to sell more Epic/IKON passes. Maybe a really, passionate wealthy group that is willing to take the risk and doesn't care about profits so much?

Either way, it is still by far my favorite ski field in NZ. I don't think you can beat the terrain/snow and the overall vibe of the place in NZ. Not to mention the postcard beauty of it.

 

[NZRob]

Isn't it the same group that owns Cardies? No doubt TC is a brilliant place but all the above comments are spot on - I can't see how driving the prices through the roof can have anything but a negative effect on their revenue & profitability. Especially when part of the appeal is to the enthusiast...

Speaking of Cardies, I think they are sucking customers from Coronet and Remarks too...get down there every year and there is only one area that is getting busier - Cardies. To the extent that we never go there any more. It's horrendous virtually all year, let alone school holidays and weekends.

Oh, and @Wasatchman I have to disagree re the best place in NZ for terrain - Whakapapa is certainly TC's equal at least. Not that I am parochial or anything

 

[Wasatchman]

Isn't it the same group that owns Cardies? No doubt TC is a brilliant place but all the above comments are spot on - I can't see how driving the prices through the roof can have anything but a negative effect on their revenue & profitability. Especially when part of the appeal is to the enthusiast...

Speaking of Cardies, I think they are sucking customers from Coronet and Remarks too...get down there every year and there is only one area that is getting busier - Cardies. To the extent that we never go there any more. It's horrendous virtually all year, let alone school holidays and weekends.

Oh, and @Wasatchman I have to disagree re the best place in NZ for terrain - Whakapapa is certainly TC's equal at least. Not that I am parochial or anything

Majority of TC owner is also owner of SOHO - the land that Cardies made an agreement to expand to. But he does not own Cardies. Here is an article I found from last year that spells it out a bit.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/spotlight-treble-cone

The article basically indicates that TC is unfortunately not viable long-term in its current state. The article speculates that eventually Cardies will eventually buy or partner with TC. Or maybe TC could do a public offering to raise more money from investors?

I need to spend a few more days at Whakapapa. TC has the best ski field expert terrain that I've experienced in NZ, but I'll admit I haven't spent much time skiing Mt Ruapehu, so I'll defer to you on Whakapapa. Certainly the snow at TC is better than Ruapehu, that would be hard to argue. I've never made it to Craigieburn which I hear is pretty awesome, so I am really looking forward to the trip report by @Mattadvproject. I'm sure you've skied much more of NZ than I have by the sounds of it, so I'll defer to you.

Great that we're getting a good discussion going on New Zealand skiing on the Pugski forum. Most of the users/discussion is focused on North American skiing, so good we can round out the site with some New Zealand discussion which will also prove helpful for those North American/European/Japanese diehards willing to come here during winter to ski.