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Are Classic Short Turns Possible on 165cm Atomic Vantage 86 C on moderate to deep slopes?

skilover

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Something like this video
The skis look narrow in the video, is it better to have a shorter and narrower skis for really quick short turns like it in the video? Is it harder to do the similar thing with 165cm Vantage 86 even with proper training? skier is about 157lb 172cm.

Thanks.
 

Brian Finch

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Yeah, some would argue the wider, shorter ski can be flexed, finessed easier than the older sticks.

I think it has more to do with mounting point & id tell ya to go -5 cm.
 

Bad Bob

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Shorter is easier. For width it is more about the driver than the ride, within reason.
 

Jilly

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86C has as natural turning radius of 17.2. The Redster X9WB has a radius of 13. Which is going to easier.....the X9. But any ski can be turned short radius, it's just how much work do you want to do?
 
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skilover

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Yeah, some would argue the wider, shorter ski can be flexed, finessed easier than the older sticks.

I think it has more to do with mounting point & id tell ya to go -5 cm.

Do you think 165cm, 86mm under the foot is type of wider shorter ski given skier at 5’7” and 157lb? Didn’t quite get you about the mount point and -5cm, could you give more detail?

Thank you very much!
 

Brian Finch

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Do you think 165cm, 86mm under the foot is type of wider shorter ski given skier at 5’7” and 157lb? Didn’t quite get you about the mount point and -5cm, could you give more detail?

Thank you very much!

I would think a ski like the Monster83 would be what you’re after.

Most carving skis are mounted -9 to 10 from ski center. It forces ya to fall inside & roll the ski on edge. A center mount ski would be for skiing park & spinning circles. Minus 5 will make you easier to pivot, but not adolescent silly.
 
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skilover

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I would think a ski like the Monster83 would be what you’re after.

Most carving skis are mounted -9 to 10 from ski center. It forces ya to fall inside & roll the ski on edge. A center mount ski would be for skiing park & spinning circles. Minus 5 will make you easier to pivot, but not adolescent silly.
if I understood correctly, the short turns in the video didn't involve much carving, maybe just a little bit, most of the part were pivoting and quick release with bouncing ?
 

mdf

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if I understood correctly, the short turns in the video didn't involve much carving, maybe just a little bit, most of the part were pivoting and quick release with bouncing ?
Done well (like the video) these turns involve pivoting to an edge set, which then carves till the next pivot. Not that different in basic idea from a stivot (just a lot less of everything). Decidedly not a pivot to a skid. Old fashioned but very pretty.
 

geepers

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If you want to find out more on how that guy is skiing like that there's a video about to come out with his thoughts and drills.


Typically a shorter, narrower underfoot ski with a smaller turn radius will be easier for short radius turns. But the person on board makes a huge difference. Bouncing? Well, making use of rebound would be a better description.

 

Brian Finch

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if I understood correctly, the short turns in the video didn't involve much carving, maybe just a little bit, most of the part were pivoting and quick release with bouncing ?

I don't think you understand that which I am trying to illuminate. If you want poppy, stivoty, sliddy mount your skis forward of the line.
 

Josh Matta

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on that snow any ski will make those short turn if you can ski 90 percent as well as Richy.
 

James

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You could watch the Sybervision skiing tape from 1992 and see almost the same turns from Jens Husted and Chris Ryman. Bit more of a check though as those straight skis were 50+ meter radius and didn’t carve that short arc like Berger’s skis.
 

jack97

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The skis look narrow in the video, is it better to have a shorter and narrower skis for really quick short turns like it in the video? Is it harder to do the similar thing with 165cm Vantage 86 even with proper training? skier is about 157lb 172cm.

As mentioned by others, that vid is Berger circa 2000s with narrow skis. Its been debating many times whether narrow skis allows for quicker turns, IMO it does but a lot of this is dependent on the skier. In addition, to make those type of turns the flex pattern of ski is important as well. Don't have a feel for the flex of a modern day mid 80s but back then the tips are soft so that it can bite the snow to start the quick turn. Right now the only skis I know of with soft tips and narrow are mogul skis.
 

James

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Berger uses slalom skis and gs skis. According to what he says in the Gellie interview of three years ago. Whether they’re fis or not, no idea. I’d think the gs were not, good chance slalom are.

2018-
 

Tony S

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Based on the OP's other recent thread, I suspect s/he just wants to know whether the just-bought or about-to-be-bought Atomics will be a significant impediment to making those turns. My answer is a simple "no." If you can make them, you can make them on those skis.

Whether @skilover cares that I happen to think that those specific turns are probably a niche move at best is probably irrelevant. Maybe a high level of coffee consumption plays into it somewhere.
 
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skilover

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I don't think you understand that which I am trying to illuminate. If you want poppy, stivoty, sliddy mount your skis forward of the line.
Thanks Brian I did understand that, just switched the topic to carving vs pivoting in the video. My binding is standard -9, just thinking if too forward, will the tail be a drag when turn? Have to jump a bit in order to make turns?
 

James

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You’re way overthinking this. Are those 86 Atomic Vantage the best skis to do that with? No. But, if you can do those turns, you can do them with those.
For god’s sake don’t center mount them.
“Standard” mount for the Vantage 86 will be fine. What are all these -9, -5 figures from?
 

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