Colorado Arapahoe Basin Is NOW a Free Agent (8/2/19 Update: A-Basin has joined IKON)

[Lorenzzo]

There would have to be significantly more motivation for an independent like A-Basin, well regarded and able to pull from a huge skiing metro, to avoid revenue sharing and instead pursue the niche of independent and separate from VR and IKON. Seems like potentially enormous upside for them. The more the Pass areas crowd and price to reinforce season type pass sales the greater the opportunity.

 

[SBrown]

I don't think that the Luv + Abasin relationship would look anything like the Abasin + Vail relationship. Vail saw Abasin as a way to extend their season on both ends without dealing with the operations costs (snowmaking + staffing) of doing so at one of their big resorts. That was a huge sale point for epic passes: ski Oct - June. In return, ABasin got a lot of cash from skier visits (in both ticket sharing and food/bev.)

The advantage for Abasin / Luv teaming up is simply making each of their own seasons passes a bit more attractive. I don't think we're going to see an unlimited abasin + unlimited luv pass, but I could see an abasin pass with 3 loveland days and vice versa. This is intriguing to a huge number of Front Range skiers who can make a good season out of one home mountain, 3 days at another "local" mountain, and a few long weekends somewhere else covered on their pass like Taos, Monarch, Sunlight, Wolf Creek, etc.

I agree that unlimited would be bad -- pass closures would funnel all the front range traffic into Loveland's lots. Maybe that's not bad for Loveland or ABasin, though -- don't know, really....

 

[Uncle Louie]

My first thought a month ago when I read the announcement from Vail that Breck was going to stay open till Memorial Day, was that the long time deal between A-Basin & Vail was done. The terrain Breck plans to leave open is the closest type "Basin terrain" of all Summit / Eagle county resorts. It's the top of peaks 6 - 8 at Breck. That was designed to compete, not compliment.

Given that, I believe it was the Basin who pulled the plug. Through out the Basin's entire season the area was open to every employee of Beaver Creek, Vail, Breck & Keystone on a pass. Not to mention local employees on that pass and the greater Denver market. Oh yeah, then all the tourists from out of the area making a late season trip. Parking problem? Not any more.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit that you see the Basin on the IKON pass this season, or early next season,at the latest. It would be IKONS response to the recent Park City /Snowbasin agreement. Nearby Copper would remain unlimited and anyone else on the pass would get 5 or 7 days at the Basin. A-Basin wouldn't announce that now (ahead of IKON announcements) even it that deal is already done.

If that happens it's a real SCORE for the greater Denver market. I suspect there are more IKON passes there than Epic passes already. Let's just hope there is also a Spring Basin pass in the future.

Cheers everybody !

 

[skix]

At the same time, I am sure the uber cheap ABasin pass will go way up, wouldn't be surprised if it almost doubled. I would be fascinated to see some inside numbers.

Bought these in June after they'd already gone up once. Definitely a bargain. I'd also be surprised to see $300-ish a year as the season pass price going forward. Seems like it's gotta be part of the tradeoff though in going away from Vail.

 

[jmeb]

I agree that unlimited would be bad -- pass closures would funnel all the front range traffic into Loveland's lots. Maybe that's not bad for Loveland or ABasin, though -- don't know, really....

Good for Lovelands bottom line, bad for guest experience. And the opposite for Abasin. I think we'd see a bit of that with even 3 shared days.

There are sorts of interesting possibilities between the two though. Shuttles between the two resorts? Guided backcountry traverses including lifts at each spot?

 

[jmeb]

View attachment 65994

Bought these in June after they'd already gone up once. Definitely a bargain. I'd also be surprised to see $300-ish a year as the season pass price going forward. Seems like it's gotta be part of the tradeoff though in going away from Vail.

Interesting...could buy that right now and hedge on next season. Plus have May skiing.....

 

[coskigirl]

At the same time, I am sure the uber cheap ABasin pass will go way up, wouldn't be surprised if it almost doubled. I would be fascinated to see some inside numbers.

Interesting. I would expect it to go up some but was thinking more like Loveland pricing or maybe a bit higher than double. I think the locals that have long purchased the Abasin only pass would be really angry at that significant an increase.

 

[coskigirl]

Interesting...could buy that right now and hedge on next season. Plus have May skiing.....

I miss the days when you could buy next year's season pass in the spring and ski the rest of the current season for free or just a slight upcharge.

 

[Lorenzzo]

View attachment 65994

Bought these in June after they'd already gone up once. Definitely a bargain. I'd also be surprised to see $300-ish a year as the season pass price going forward. Seems like it's gotta be part of the tradeoff though in going away from Vail.

If I were A-Basin thinking through pricing, one thing I'd look closely at would be reversing the VR model of very high window prices to support early pass sales and instead targeting daily passes, and support that with high season pass rates and low daily rates compared to VR or Alterra.

The implication from they're saying they can improve parking and crowding is they think they can make more money having fewer skiers than through affiliation with VR. It would be awkward for them to say that and then affiliate with Alterra. I'm placing my bet on independence.

 

[RumbaRockette]

I highly doubt that A-Basin will join the Ikon pass. Their main cited reason was the parking situation (which sucks on weekends unless you get there early). Given that they have to share profits on the Epic Pass with other resorts, I bet that is another reason as well. It creates a bit of a loss-leader environment for them in which they have to charge for other services to actually turn a profit.

I expect them to go completely independent of any pass next year - maybe a few shared days with Ikon, but I would expect it to be 7 days at most like you have in Aspen or Jackson Hole. They have enough of a draw from the weekend & day trip warriors to remain independent.

If they partnered with Loveland - now that would be amazing.

 

[amlemus]

I highly doubt that A-Basin will join the Ikon pass. Their main cited reason was the parking situation (which sucks on weekends unless you get there early). Given that they have to share profits on the Epic Pass with other resorts, I bet that is another reason as well. It creates a bit of a loss-leader environment for them in which they have to charge for other services to actually turn a profit.

I expect them to go completely independent of any pass next year - maybe a few shared days with Ikon, but I would expect it to be 7 days at most like you have in Aspen or Jackson Hole. They have enough of a draw from the weekend & day trip warriors to remain independent.

If they partnered with Loveland - now that would be amazing.

Agreed that the Loveland partnership would be amazing, but would put A-Basin at a significant disadvantage if the pass ever compromised by weather, accidents, etc. Loveland gets all the upside there. I like A-Basin as an independent; I think they need to stay that way to keep "the Legend" legendary.

 

[Jtlange]

Just doubled down on this news! Go Abasin! @Tricia, weren't we just talking about this???

 

[RumbaRockette]

Agreed that the Loveland partnership would be amazing, but would put A-Basin at a significant disadvantage if the pass ever compromised by weather, accidents, etc. Loveland gets all the upside there. I like A-Basin as an independent; I think they need to stay that way to keep "the Legend" legendary.

It could be done with limited days to control the crowds and "overflow" in the event that the pass is closed due to weather.

Completely independent would be better for crowding, though.

 

[coskigirl]

Video interview with Al.

 

[Wolfski]

Arapaho wasn't able to (fund) expand without Vail's influence/revenue, and its value was far less before this Epic partnership. Now, every A-Basin fan can benefit from that allegiance for now but remember, its also easier to sell without ties to any other Resort.

BTW, I love skiing A-Basin and spent many a days lapping the Pali lift while stopping in the lot now known as the Beach, but you didn't have to buy a spot.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Boom

 

[dbostedo]

I would be fascinated to see some inside numbers.

Me too. I'm wondering if they have a plan that actually nets them more revenue in the long run without having Vail siphon some off... or if they are making the rare decision to concede revenue to have happier customers and (potentially) run the business easier.

 

[RumbaRockette]

Me too. I'm wondering if they have a plan that actually nets them more revenue in the long run without having Vail siphon some off... or if they are making the rare decision to concede revenue to have happier customers and (potentially) run the business easier.

I'm pretty sure in the long run they will actually see more money. Take a look at how many resorts are covered with the Epic Pass, and generally divide that by the average number of visitors each resort gets on a percentage basis on that pass to generally estimate their share - It's probably next to nothing for A-Basin. Granted there are probably other incentives like guaranteed investment, but long term it'll be better for A-Basin to go off on their own.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

My first thought a month ago when I read the announcement from Vail that Breck was going to stay open till Memorial Day, was that the long time deal between A-Basin & Vail was done. The terrain Breck plans to leave open is the closest type "Basin terrain" of all Summit / Eagle county resorts. It's the top of peaks 6 - 8 at Breck. That was designed to compete, not compliment.

Given that, I believe it was the Basin who pulled the plug. Through out the Basin's entire season the area was open to every employee of Beaver Creek, Vail, Breck & Keystone on a pass. Not to mention local employees on that pass and the greater Denver market. Oh yeah, then all the tourists from out of the area making a late season trip. Parking problem? Not any more.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit that you see the Basin on the IKON pass this season, or early next season,at the latest. It would be IKONS response to the recent Park City /Snowbasin agreement. Nearby Copper would remain unlimited and anyone else on the pass would get 5 or 7 days at the Basin. A-Basin wouldn't announce that now (ahead of IKON announcements) even it that deal is already done.

If that happens it's a real SCORE for the greater Denver market. I suspect there are more IKON passes there than Epic passes already. Let's just hope there is also a Spring Basin pass in the future.

Cheers everybody !

No chance there are more ikon passes in the front range than epic. It's not even close. 50% of the people in my office don't even know what an ikon pass is. I live in Summit County and have met quite a few locals that don't know what is.

 

[Seldomski]

So... with A-basin gone, does that mean Vail can partner with and/or buy more resorts now in CO? I'm not familiar with the specifics of the prior ruling...