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James

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@James : They quit giving you spring for free in either 2015 or 2016.
I have a few receipts:

2014 spring+2014-15 pass was $279. They did not call it a spring pass, just sold next year early with current year privileges.

I'm guessing @nay 's numbers fill in this gap:
nay: 2015 spring alone $199,
nay: 2015 spring plus 2015-2016 was $299.

2016 spring alone was $209.
2016 spring plus 2016-17 pass was $349.
I just noticed they balanced the difference -- spring alone $70 less, both $70 more.

2017 spring: no data

2018 spring was $269.
Wasn't sure what I was doing this spring, so did not double down, unfortunately.

This year spring is $299.
Yeah it was that 2016 plus 2016/7 I remember.
Plus, I always remember the Double Down as Spring plus next year. Now it seems to be 2 years.
 

nay

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Yeah it was that 2016 plus 2016/7 I remember.
Plus, I always remember the Double Down as Spring plus next year. Now it seems to be 2 years.

I think the spring benefits on next season’s pass went away when they released double down, and double down just got more discounted as spring hit, because you were still buying the current season and next.

My perspective gets fuzzy fairly far back, because I am on month 53 of my ski every month streak and have bought full passes the last 4 years. Loveland is harder to get open than A-Basin in warm early season years - A-Basin beat them by 3 weeks last season - and skiing St. Mary’s in Oct is not worth $100. Or really any amount of money.

I almost forgot that A-Basin is the only nearly sure thing to bag Oct turns. That’s what got me off the “spring included” cycle in the first place.

After Sept St. Mary’s, High Noon is like skiing on crack.
 
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nay

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If A-Basin is going to be on the Ikon I guess the crapshow will continue next season :huh:

Im sticking to my plan.

:popcorn:

It would probably be better day to day, but Ikon still brings destination skiers. It’s the 15 passenger rental van full of people wearing lime green with pink accent jumpsuits that kill it more than herding behavior of locals.

This is still I think the core question, going back to the statement from Loveland:

If you're overloading the mountain and opening it up to potentially hundreds of thousands of other pass holders, it's going to have a noticeable impact on operations and the experience at the mountain," he continues. "We just don't want to alienate or frustrate our core customers.

Is A-Basin trying to not frustrate or alienate its core customers, or was it really just about a moderate reduction in parking impact and the target customer has changed? Those are two entirely different things.

I never had any issue with parking this season. That’s not what has changed on the mountain, and why Loveland draws such a consistently favorable contrast to me now.
 

UGASkiDawg

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It would probably be better day to day, but Ikon still brings destination skiers. It’s the 15 passenger rental van full of people wearing lime green with pink accent jumpsuits that kill it more than herding behavior of locals.

This is still I think the core question, going back to the statement from Loveland:

If you're overloading the mountain and opening it up to potentially hundreds of thousands of other pass holders, it's going to have a noticeable impact on operations and the experience at the mountain," he continues. "We just don't want to alienate or frustrate our core customers.

Is A-Basin trying to not frustrate or alienate its core customers, or was it really just about a moderate reduction in parking impact and the target customer has changed? Those are two entirely different things.

I never had any issue with parking this season. That’s not what has changed on the mountain, and why Loveland draws such a consistently favorable contrast to me now.
The only thing that changed on the mountain was it got a lot bigger and a lot better. It was already the best terrain around and now it's not even close. Removing Norway is a move I don't understand but it didn't make an impact on me this year. Parking sucks....and other than early season before Xmas I didn't stand in a line once. I couldn't get in the parking lot several times and left and was very last part of last lot a number of other times. The skiing was downright awesome. I don't have use lenawee anymore unless I want lap east wall below the traverse (and I don't) so I can get around using beavers, Pali, Zuma lifts and hit all the good terrain generally without dealing the hoards that overwhelm bmx and lenawee. The crowding is a problem in the parking lots and lodges and we'll see how any potential crowds on pali get later if we get more pow but so far the skiing experience has been awesome even on the epic hoard pass. As ikon pass holder, I hope they stay off of the ikon pass.
 

tball

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Is A-Basin trying to not frustrate or alienate its core customers, or was it really just about a moderate reduction in parking impact and the target customer has changed? Those are two entirely different things.
I think there is a third possibility if they end up on Ikon, they simply got more revenue per scan from Ikon than Epic was willing to pay. Alterra needs A-basin more than VR and should be willing to pay substantially more, and there are no legacy numbers holding things back.

I also hope they don't join Ikon. I'm happy to pay for the pass but will be annoyed if they do Ikon and I can't find parking.
 

Noodler

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A-Basin Al strikes me as a straight shooter. For A-Basin to go full-on with Ikon would mean that everything Al said as to their reasons for jumping off the VR train would have been lies. I'm not buying that Al is a liar or has suddenly turned over a new leaf... a nasty rotten leaf.
 

James

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Why don't they do a non resident pass? Maybe it's hard to enforce, but why not give a discount to people who likely won't be there that much as they live far away?
 

dbostedo

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A-Basin Al strikes me as a straight shooter. For A-Basin to go full-on with Ikon would mean that everything Al said as to their reasons for jumping off the VR train would have been lies. I'm not buying that Al is a liar or has suddenly turned over a new leaf... a nasty rotten leaf.

Epic was unlimited, right? So given that Ikon may only be 5 or 7 days, couldn't that still accomplish the goal of less of a s#$tshow and still garner A-Basis some revenue? Or do you really think limited Ikon will be as bad as unlimited Epic?
 

Noodler

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Epic was unlimited, right? So given that Ikon may only be 5 or 7 days, couldn't that still accomplish the goal of less of a s#$tshow and still garner A-Basis some revenue? Or do you really think limited Ikon will be as bad as unlimited Epic?

Guess my term "full-on" didn't come across correctly. I meant full-on as in unlimited. I agree that a 5 or 7 days would not have the same impact and Al could claim he is still achieving the goals.
 

Brian Likes Pow

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Ill say ikon even on a limited basis was a big part of the lcc traffic this year. I realize there were other factors...

Im still rooting for a stand alone abasin with maybe some reciprocal days...
 
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dbostedo

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Ill say ikon even on a limited basis was a big part of the lcc traffic this year.

Sure, but in the case of LCC, they went from MCP only to MCP and Ikon. A-Basin is potentially going from Epic unlimited, to Ikon limited. Big difference, I'd think.
 

UGASkiDawg

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Sure, but in the case of LCC, they went from MCP only to MCP and Ikon. A-Basin is potentially going from Epic unlimited, to Ikon limited. Big difference, I'd think.
Big difference is correct but I still don't want them on ikon even as an ikon pass holder.
 

tball

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I never had any issue with parking this season.

I couldn't get in the parking lot several times and left and was very last part of last lot a number of other times.
Is this parking discrepancy weekday vs. weekend, early vs. late, just luck?

I've only been turned away once and that's seared in my brain. If A-basin were my only pass I'd be looking elsewhere if they go with Ikon, even if it's only 5/7 days. Pass prices have gone up enough it really needs to be viable as an only season pass for A-basin's core customers. They need to have somewhere for you to park if it's your only mountain.

There were a lot of Ikon pass holders at Copper Mountain this winter. Copper is a much larger resort with infrastructure to handle crowds. They also invested $20M in new lifts immediately after signing with Ikon last year.

If A-basin joins Ikon, what are they going to do to keep the Epic sh*t show from turning into an Ikon sh*t show? Not just this coming year, but over the term of the agreement?
 
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nay

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Is this parking discrepancy weekday vs. weekend, early vs. late, just luck?

I've only been turned away once and that's seared in my brain. If A-basin were my only pass I'd be looking elsewhere if they go with Ikon, even if it's only 5/7 days. Pass prices have gone up enough it really needs to be viable as an only season pass for A-basin's core customers. They need to have somewhere for you to park if it's your only mountain.

There were a lot of Ikon pass holders at Copper Mountain this winter. Copper is a much larger resort with infrastructure to handle crowds. They also invested $20M in new lifts immediately after signing with Ikon last year.

If A-basin joins Ikon, what are they going to do to keep the Epic sh*t show from turning into an Ikon sh*t show? Not just this coming year, but over the term of the agreement?

I mostly skied weekdays at A-Basin, but coming from Monument if I don’t leave early enough to beat Denver traffic on a weekday and I-70 traffic on a weekend, then I’m at huge risk of not even getting into Loveland’s main lot.

Which is to say that I leave early enough to get parking 100% of the time. That gets old, but really it’s more that the growth in Denver is the problem, and if you beat that the rest is fine.

Aspen says Ikon added 9% to skier days across the 4 mountains this season. And that’s with limited days and you can’t day trip Aspen.

I’d guess Ikon even at 7 days would have material impact at A-Basin. Copper and Winter Park together see millions of annual skier visits. 50,000 Front Range Ikon passes would be 350,000 potential A-Basin days, and that doesn’t include destination skiers.

This is the problem Loveland clearly recognizes: even with limited access, it’s hundreds of thousands of potential skier days on top of your regular customers.

If you are ski area and not a resort, that’s locust swarm size.
 

nay

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Why don't they do a non resident pass? Maybe it's hard to enforce, but why not give a discount to people who likely won't be there that much as they live far away?

Usually those discounts are hidden in lodging deals. Sure would make the locals unhappy to see non-locals pay less, though.

Of course, this is the pricing game. It makes sense to buy a pass just for a ski vacation over multiple day window rates, but that money is paid up front and is sunk if you don’t come.

I suspect people buying at low prices early and never skiing a day are a significant portion of season pass revenue.
 

Philpug

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Epic was unlimited, right? So given that Ikon may only be 5 or 7 days, couldn't that still accomplish the goal of less of a s#$tshow and still garner A-Basis some revenue? Or do you really think limited Ikon will be as bad as unlimited Epic?

Guess my term "full-on" didn't come across correctly. I meant full-on as in unlimited. I agree that a 5 or 7 days would not have the same impact and Al could claim he is still achieving the goals.

I think the biggest problem with being a part of the Epic Pass was that in early season and late season, A-Basin was the only game in town and that drew a LOT of Epic Pass holders. I think just this Spring there will be a huge drop in Epic Passes on the hill due to the fact that Breckenridge will be open and that will draw the majority of the Epic skiers.

I think going MCP or even Ikon with being limited to 7 days makes sense, it will draw some new people in and I think the additional traffic will be significantly less than what the Epic Pass brought. I agree, I would not want to see it being full Ikon and I don't think we will see that.
 

Snowflake2420

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If they add days on the Full Ikon and not Ikon Base, I'll live. Most Front Rangers are the Ikon Base crowd.

If limited days are added to the Ikon Base that still poses a problem as nay as expounded upon re: Loveland.
 

coskigirl

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If they add days on the Full Ikon and not Ikon Base, I'll live. Most Front Rangers are the Ikon Base crowd.

If limited days are added to the Ikon Base that still poses a problem as nay as expounded upon re: Loveland.

I doubt Ikon would allow that as it would cause confusion since it would be the only mountain with limited days on the full and no days on the base.
 

Doug Briggs

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I'm waiting to see how it goes at Breck. At this time, you can still ride the Gondola up, which will end presumably before the skiing ends, ride the upper mountain and ski down. Even when the Gondola is shut down and you have to ride a bus to Peak 7, it'll be more convenient than packing up and driving to the Basin.

If Breck closes within a couple weeks of A-Basin's closing date (excluding the weekend only routine) I'll just stick with Epic only next year. Driving to A-Basin is a PITA, and while I really enjoy spring skiing, if the scenario I mentioned plays out, I'll have had my fill of lift served. I'll be ready for some biking and hiking to ski.
 

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