Colorado Arapahoe Basin Impending Free Agency

[Ken_R]

Saw that....seems like more evidence but maybe it's wishful thinking. I want them independent not on epic or ikon. That's the only way the crowds get controlled.

I went to Copper yesterday and while at the bar in the east base area I couldnt help overhear this "ski bro" talk about how he was there because of the iKon pass and was going to Steamboat next etc etc. I am sure he is not the only one...

 

[coskigirl]

Saw that....seems like more evidence but maybe it's wishful thinking. I want them independent not on epic or ikon. That's the only way the crowds get controlled.

I don't disagree but either way, this will help to spread out the crowds in May.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I went to Copper yesterday and while at the bar in the east base area I couldnt help overhear this "ski bro" talk about how he was there because of the iKon pass and was going to Steamboat next etc etc. I am sure he is not the only one...

Copper needs the Ikon pass but Abasin needs nothing. They have a great brand and following and can sell their own passes and be fine. Copper cannot do that.

 

[Coach13]

Doesn’t it make sense that for ABssin to make that move they feel that they can sustain a similar revenue intake without the Epic Pass?While the Epic Pass brings in the skiing crowds, a certain amount of the pass revenue and certainly other revenues due to food/drink sales follow as well. I dont know of any business that that makes moves to reduce revenue they don’t know they can replace, crowds aside.

 

[coskigirl]

Doesn’t it make sense that for ABssin to make that move they feel that they can sustain a similar revenue intake without the Epic Pass?While the Epic Pass brings in the skiing crowds, a certain amount of the pass revenue and certainly other revenues due to food/drink sales follow as well. I dont know of any business that that makes moves to reduce revenue they don’t know they can replace, crowds aside.

Eldora did. The Epic crowds were too much. Costs (monetary and otherwise) involved in dealing with crowds can outweigh the revenue. If they separate we don’t know if it was a one-sided decision or mutual and may never know for sure.

 

[Noodler]

So now they are moving Keystone's opening to earlier and Breck's closing to Memorial Day weekend. This sure does seem like they're setting up to capture some of the skiers that buy the Epic Pass for Abasin's long season.

https://www.summitdaily.com/news/br...s-through-memorial-day-beginning-this-spring/

Oh, please, please, please make this be real. Next season I'm moving to the Ikon + LL + A-Basin.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

Eldora did. The Epic crowds were too much. Costs (monetary and otherwise) involved in dealing with crowds can outweigh the revenue. If they separate we don’t know if it was a one-sided decision or mutual and may never know for sure.

Eldora is on Ikon and was on the SuperPass before Ikon. Not as many crowd issues as the Epic day’s but enough that they’re humping visitors to park.

 

[Coach13]

Eldora did. The Epic crowds were too much. Costs (monetary and otherwise) involved in dealing with crowds can outweigh the revenue. If they separate we don’t know if it was a one-sided decision or mutual and may never know for sure.

I’d have to believe it would be ABasin’s decision. They’ve been linked to Vail passes for a long time. I would think being linked to at least Keystone would be an advantage to them.

 

[Philpug]

Copper needs the Ikon pass but Abasin needs nothing. They have a great brand and following and can sell their own passes and be fine. Copper cannot do that.

Oh I disagree with that. I am sure there was a time but now, A-Basin would surely feel a huge drop in revenue without another pass to work with. I know a local ski area that is very much like Abasin and I heard they saw a 30% drop in passes from last season or since the Ikon Pass wan announce.

 

[coskigirl]

Eldora is on Ikon and was on the SuperPass before Ikon. Not as many crowd issues as the Epic day’s but enough that they’re humping visitors to park.

Yes, definitely having crowd issues. Fortunately, I haven't been turned back yet but I've passed the line as I've left the last couple seasons on occasions. The Epic season was 13-14 and they joined the RMSP in 14-15 and Powdr bought them in 2016. It's possible that Eldora had decided to position themselves for acquisition and knew that Vail was not an option for whatever reason so decided to leave the pass for that reason.

I’d have to believe it would be ABasin’s decision. They’ve been linked to Vail passes for a long time. I would think being linked to at least Keystone would be an advantage to them.

So if being linked to Keystone is an advantage for Abasin and they leave how would that make it ABasin's decision? If that's such a benefit to Abasin wouldn't that suggest that leaving would be Vail Resort's decision?

 

[Coach13]

So if being linked to Keystone is an advantage for Abasin and they leave how would that make it ABasin's decision? If that's such a benefit to Abasin wouldn't that suggest that leaving would be Vail Resort's decision?

As you said earlier there’s no way of knowing who’s decision it is but you also made the case for ABasin lowering costs thru lowering crowds as their reasoning for leaving Vail. What would be Vail’s motivation to drop AB given a long term relationship? I guess they could try to attract skiers away to their other area resorts but I’m betting Vail understands the different vibe and experience AB offers which is imo the reason Vail has partnered with them for so long in the past. With Vail, BC, Breck and Keystone it’s not like Vail skiers don’t have other really good options pretty close by so there’s a reason Vail partnered with them in the 1st place. With competing resorts and passes (IKON) options close by, I could be wrong but I don’t see Vail giving AB the boot into the hands of the competition. That’s doesn’t strike me as Vail’s style.

 

[Monique]

Eldora did. The Epic crowds were too much. Costs (monetary and otherwise) involved in dealing with crowds can outweigh the revenue. If they separate we don’t know if it was a one-sided decision or mutual and may never know for sure.

My first thought was, yeah, but actual skiing aside, Eldora just does NOT have the parking lot capacity for those crowds.

My second thought was, where would A Basin parking stand if they didn't have access to the Keystone expansion lot?

 

[Noodler]

My first thought was, yeah, but actual skiing aside, Eldora just does NOT have the parking lot capacity for those crowds.

My second thought was, where would A Basin parking stand if they didn't have access to the Keystone expansion lot?

My preference would be that once all the A-Basin lots are full, that's it. No more ticket sales for the day. Of course we'll probably never see them do this.

 

[coskigirl]

It would be interesting to see if they could work out a deal with Loveland after it closes for the season to use their lots and then provide a shuttle over the pass. Not that I want to see Abasin that full but it could be an option on those crazy busy days but that would require the pass staying open of course.

 

[tball]

Snowbasin and Sun Valley are going Epic.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/sun-valley-snowbasin-going-epic.13942/

And, I noticed something on the Snowbasin Epic page:

What resorts accept Epic Pass products?
The following resorts will accept Epic Pass products for the 2019-2020 season.

United States

• California | Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood
• Colorado | Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Crested Butte, Arapahoe Basin, Telluride
• Idaho | Sun Valley
• Michigan | Mt. Brighton
• Minnesota | Afton Alps
• New Hampshire | Mt. Sunapee
• Utah | Snowbasin, Park City
• Vermont | Stowe, Okemo
• Washington | Stevens Pass
• Wisconsin | Wilmot Mountain

https://www.snowbasin.com/epicpass
​

Premature release, or a typo?

At the very least this shows VR is willing to throw some serious money at resorts to join, and presumably stay on the Epic Pass.

 

[Monique]

Snowbasin and Sun Valley are going Epic.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/sun-valley-snowbasin-going-epic.13942/

And, I noticed something on the Snowbasin Epic page:

What resorts accept Epic Pass products?
The following resorts will accept Epic Pass products for the 2019-2020 season.

United States

• California | Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood
• Colorado | Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Crested Butte, Arapahoe Basin, Telluride
• Idaho | Sun Valley
• Michigan | Mt. Brighton
• Minnesota | Afton Alps
• New Hampshire | Mt. Sunapee
• Utah | Snowbasin, Park City
• Vermont | Stowe, Okemo
• Washington | Stevens Pass
• Wisconsin | Wilmot Mountain

https://www.snowbasin.com/epicpass
​

Premature release, or a typo?

At the very least this shows VR is willing to throw some serious money at resorts to join, and presumably stay on the Epic Pass.

@SBrown said a little something elsewhere that also hinted at this possibility.

 

[Noodler]

Snowbasin and Sun Valley are going Epic.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/sun-valley-snowbasin-going-epic.13942/

And, I noticed something on the Snowbasin Epic page:

What resorts accept Epic Pass products?
The following resorts will accept Epic Pass products for the 2019-2020 season.

United States

• California | Heavenly, Northstar, Kirkwood
• Colorado | Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Crested Butte, Arapahoe Basin, Telluride
• Idaho | Sun Valley
• Michigan | Mt. Brighton
• Minnesota | Afton Alps
• New Hampshire | Mt. Sunapee
• Utah | Snowbasin, Park City
• Vermont | Stowe, Okemo
• Washington | Stevens Pass
• Wisconsin | Wilmot Mountain

https://www.snowbasin.com/epicpass
​

Premature release, or a typo?

At the very least this shows VR is willing to throw some serious money at resorts to join, and presumably stay on the Epic Pass.

I bet that was a pre-release, but they didn't lose a ski (err, a ski resort, A-Basin in this case). I would be very surprised at this point if A-Basin wasn't on Epic next season.

 

[Muleski]

My impression/intel, whatever, suggests that the number of Epic passes sold for this coming season is absolutely critical to Vail Resort's stock price, multiple, etc. They have made this whole "thing" about the push toward 1Million passes sold. Any way they can. There is some chatter that they are making very "attractive" deals {some in VR might say TOO attractive} to bring on and hold onto pass partners. I would assume that VR will make this very attractive and simply will not lose A-Basin.

Have not spent much time thinking through the parking issue.

Now if A-Basin feels that they would be better off being completely independent, that won't help VR. I and pretty sure that there is no Ikon/Alterra play here. Ikon, I believe, is tighter on the deals. And is interested in true destination resorts....primarily to acquire at some point. Much more behind the curtain with Alterra than with publicly traded MTN.

VR trades at a pretty high multiple. If the analyst community changes opinions, that could drop. And MTN will devalue.

Interesting to watch. Hope nothing hurts the ski experience at A-Basin.

 

[Coach13]

I bet that was a pre-release, but they didn't lose a ski (err, a ski resort, A-Basin in this case). I would be very surprised at this point if A-Basin wasn't on Epic next season.

I’m with you, AB is going no where. I’ll be shocked if after their long association with Vail this relationship doesn’t last for many years longer.

 

[Uncle Louie]

As many of you know, Arapahoe Basin is set to become a free agent after this 2018/2019 ski season ends. What are your predictions for what they will do? Any suggestions that might help them make their decision easier?

Well, If Vail plans to not renew with A-Basin maybe some idea like this would appear.

http://news.vailresorts.com/mountain/breckenridge/breckenridge-extends-winter-season.htm