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I'm trying to curb my excitement so that I don't get super disappointed if ABasin stays with Vail. But wow, really great intel and potential foreshadowing there, wowwww...
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Colorado Arapahoe Basin Impending Free Agency
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I'm trying to curb my excitement so that I don't get super disappointed if ABasin stays with Vail. But wow, really great intel and potential foreshadowing there, wowwww...
We still need to be careful...Deal with the devil we know...Vail or the devil we don't..Ikon.
That is if they go that direction. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a third pass. There are a lot of free agents like the Lovelands, Mt. Roses, Mad River Glens, Homewoods, Schweitzers that could form another option.
We still need to be careful...Deal with the devil we know...Vail or the devil we don't..Ikon.
Yep, point taken. You speak the truth.
I think the problem with getting too excited about the VR announcement regarding early season snowmaking investments is they make sense with or without A-basin on the Epic Pass.
CO early season, while it's better than anywhere else, is pretty bad and there's an enormous opportunity to make it much better with more snowmaking. I'm really excited VR is making big snowmaking investments, as are Winter Park, Copper, Aspen, and hopefully others to varying degrees.
I hope Vail is kicking off an early season arms race here. It would really benefit CO skiers if A-basin became just a small part of the first month of skiing.
I'd love to be able to take our kiddos skiing in November. We need something to do on weekends after soccer ends in the fall, but there is rarely enough terrain open I'm comfortable with them on the slopes. It's just too dangerous, WROD and all. Big investments in snowmaking moving things up three weeks would be huge and really add to the value of season passes.
CO early season, while it's better than anywhere else, is pretty bad and there's an enormous opportunity to make it much better with more snowmaking. I'm really excited VR is making big snowmaking investments, as are Winter Park, Copper, Aspen, and hopefully others to varying degrees.
I hope Vail is kicking off an early season arms race here. It would really benefit CO skiers if A-basin became just a small part of the first month of skiing.
I'd love to be able to take our kiddos skiing in November. We need something to do on weekends after soccer ends in the fall, but there is rarely enough terrain open I'm comfortable with them on the slopes. It's just too dangerous, WROD and all. Big investments in snowmaking moving things up three weeks would be huge and really add to the value of season passes.
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I don't disagree, but the base elevation difference between the two is over 1500 vertical feet. That's really significant when it comes to the ability to make snow in the early season and why Keystone generally shuts down early every season. I just don't see Keystone being able to realistically compete with A-Basin and LL in this regard.
To that point, I don't understand why Keystone is the focus when Breck's base is 400' higher.
Base elevation is a factor in snow preservation, but so it the sunshine. A-Basin and Keystone both are north facing. Breckenridge is ENE facing. That can be a huge difference for snow preservation.
Yes, but Keystone has their Gondola that allows downloading over maybe half that elevation difference. And, being further downstream gives Keystone access to a lot more water than A-Basin and Loveland for snowmaking.
I also think the point isn't really who's first to open. I agree it will be hard for Keystone to compete with A-basin for getting the first run open, although Katz said that in an earnings call and they put it in the earnings press release, so they must have good reason to believe they'll be in the race.
The important point, I believe, is who can get the first 10 then 20 runs open. A-basin and Loveland are already losing that race in most years. With a concerted effort by VR to move the calendar up three weeks at their large resorts that difference will likely become stark.
I hope Copper and Winter Park are forced to compete in the early season to draw skiers to the Ikon Pass. They have their gondolas now too. It will be great to eventually have Colorado skiers spread out over a lot more runs in November!
Yeah, maybe not so much. Sure CO has an earlier start to the season that we do in PNW, but the PNW typically gets a lot of terrain open pretty quickly. This year is an anomaly, until today only Crystal and Mission ridge were open, both due to snowmaking (Mission Ridge has top-to-bottom, 2200’ vertical open with snowmaking). Nonetheless, the snow is now falling, Stevens and Baker both open today, no WRODs, a lot of open terrain and mostly natural snow. Stevens reported over a foot of snow in the last 24 hours and a 36” base, and will be running 4 lifts from the base; likely all the frontside will be open by this weekend, and the backside shortly thereafter I would guess.
Of course, this post of mine has nothing to do with A-Basin, so I apologize.
Vail is like a shark...it needs to constantly eat ie create revenue for it's stock holders. By pushing opening early they are trying to show that they we trying to be more profitable. Question is will they have enough J1's to work and do what it takes to open early. It also changes how supplies lke food comes in and even stocking their retailers. This is very interesting. I wonder what the percentge of skiers they are projecting to be pass holders vs wlk up window tickets. If I was property owner on one of these resorts my off off season rates just jumped to singular off season rate.
I would be very surprised if Copper got into this race, at least as far as the general public goes. They've focused on the race camp scene and have created quite the niche for themselves. That generates so much revenue between lane space and lodging. In addition, the gondola isn't a full gondola so downloading via the gondola would be wholly inefficient.
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Good call and most likely very true when it comes to the Copper "bean counters".
Yep... I think it likely that Vail and A-Basin had not yet, at least, inked a new deal before that press conference. This announcement was a shot across the bow.
I was under the impression that Keystone, like most destination resorts, normally shut down with plenty of snow, just because business drops off so precipitously in the spring. The one time I was at Keystone for closing weekend, they had plenty of snow (but I know a single case does not a trend make). Can anyone else confirm?
pchewn and tball are right. And if they add in the new high-elevation lifts in the master plan, Keystone will be an early- and late-season powerhouse. If this was only about early season, sending the money to Breck might have made more sense, but Keystone's superior snow preservation means that what they make will last... shows Vail isn't looking at this as just an early-season play.
It also occurs to me that Breck is slightly further from Denver so it might be a mental block for some to go past Loveland/Abasin to get to Breck. Keystone isn't much further than Abasin and it's closer if Loveland Pass closes.
Coming down from ABasin in May it's pretty obvious that Keystone melts faster. Keystone just cannot last longer in the spring and they'll have to work twice as hard as ABasin and Loveland in the fall. Throwing money at it could help even the playing field but they can never erase their altitude and placement disadvantage.
OTOH I have wondered a few times why Keystone and Breck are shutting down in spring when it seems plenty of runs could be kept open if even a bit of effort were put forth.
I wonder. Even with last season's crappy accumulation, Breck's Horseshoe Bowl and a lot of the other high alpine terrain were still very much skiable when Breck closed. If there were the possibility of downloading from mid mountain, I wonder if Breck could make a pretty good late season play with excellent expert terrain (Horseshoe >>> Pali - sorry, guys).
Especially as, for multiple seasons of the last ten, Breck decided to extend its season.
Beavers at A-Basin is a game changer. A lot of that terrain puts it on equal footing with Peak 7 at Breck (IMHO).
The Beavers just increased the lead it had over every mountain anywhere near the front range. Compact easy to get around expert terrain without all the acres of traversing and lower intermediate terrain in between that you find everywhere else. That's not to say that other front range mountains don't have good terrain but it is much more spread out and harder to get around. There are also other reasons to hit mountains. I personally appreciate the amenities of big resorts over the Basin and some days I want the long groomers to rock around on. For pure terrain for an advanced/expert skier though, nothing really comes close until you hit Aspen or CB.
So now they are moving Keystone's opening to earlier and Breck's closing to Memorial Day weekend. This sure does seem like they're setting up to capture some of the skiers that buy the Epic Pass for Abasin's long season.
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/br...s-through-memorial-day-beginning-this-spring/
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/br...s-through-memorial-day-beginning-this-spring/
Saw that....seems like more evidence but maybe it's wishful thinking. I want them independent not on epic or ikon. That's the only way the crowds get controlled.
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