Colorado Arapahoe Basin Impending Free Agency

[mikel]

*Telluride might also fit that bill now... I don't know what access VR employees will have to it, but it appears to still be part of the CO ski country website at this time.

To the best of my knowledge, at least as of the middle of this past Sep, A Basin employees were not getting any Telluride skiing benefits.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I completely forgot that Powdr is still separate--my bad! All the other ski areas in the region are operating permits from the Forest Service... I'm not at all sure what the specific differences are, but they're not free-and-clear ownership, either. Whether Alterra wants their own front range ski area, I think, depends on what their long-term strategy is.​

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As @tball pointed out, I was confusing Alterra and Powdr ownership... I agree that Alterra's not going to sell Eldora, since they don't even own it But I think a lot hinges on just what Alterra's strategy is. @Muleski has made the argument in the past, and did so again recently in this thread, that Alterra's been telling its investors that their long-term play is not about competing for day skiers or going head-to-head with Vail, it's about applying the Aspen model across more properties to drive increased revenue from big spenders (or at least that's my interpretation). If this is accurate, then they're looking for a way either to lure high-value vacationers to Winter Park or to unload it. Spiking it's visitation numbers up with what looks like an unsustainable Ikon product gives the appearance that they want to sell it, but investing in a big new gondola says maybe they're in it for the long haul. Maybe they're not even sure yet. But luring lots more day-trippers from the front range is only going to decrease its appeal to choosy vacationers, as the crowds will erode its reputation.

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And if all that holds true, then also bigger crowds. Which will lead more high-value tourists to take a closer look at the Vail properties, which seems to be the opposite of what Alterra's telling their shareholders their strategy is.

Overall, I'm doubtful that Alterra wants either Loveland or A-Basin. But if they do, they're going to want Loveland more because it's so much closer to Winter Park.

If crowds killed skiers desires to travel to places then VR wouldn't exist.

 

[New2]

So much closer? They are 5 miles apart. The vast majority of days, its about 15min difference.

My info must be outdated or just plain inaccurate then. I thought the road over Loveland Pass was closed for winter. ~15 years ago when I visited in May it was closed and we had to loop around, but maybe we just hit it because of some sort of rare closure and I way overgeneralized

 

[skix]

I thought the road over Loveland Pass was closed for winter.

Loveland Pass is the hazardous materials route so that the I-70 tunnels aren't endangered. They work very hard to keep that road open all winter. It gets closed by snow often but always reopens asap.

 

[tball]

Loveland Pass is the hazardous materials route so that the I-70 tunnels aren't endangered. They work very hard to keep that road open all winter. It gets closed by snow often but always reopens asap.

I miss those days.

It seems the current operational plan is to shut down Loveland Pass as soon as they can possibly justify it. They then run hazardous materials through the tunnel at the top of the hour, stopping all other traffic for 10-15 minutes.

This gaureentess major backups on each side of the tunnel during a storm. The road conditions then become a nightmare as plows can't do their job because of cars sitting there. Then all the cars with crappy tires can't get going when the tunnel opens to traffic. It's a vicious cycle.

Do they not have the money to maintain Loveland Pass like they used to, or is this a conspiracy to justify the third bore. Ya'd think traffic's bad enough already, but more pain might get voters to fund roads.

How about the new A-basin/Loveland Pass Joint Venture pays to keep the road open to run shuttles to the top for skiers? Seems like a couple Poma's up there would cover a lot of ground combined with shuttles. It worked great on Berthoud, talking about the good old days.

 

[jmeb]

Do they not have the money to maintain Loveland Pass like they used to,..... Ya'd think traffic's bad enough already, but more pain might get voters to fund roads.

DING DING DING. CDOT is woefully underfunded for the growing number of drivers on the roads.. As long as TABOR continues to require every new tax to require voter approval and the measure to read "do you support increasing taxes for ...." -- well, enjoy your wait at the tunnel. People don't vote for taxes unless it directly supports them. It's why we have a representative democracy to encourage people to be less selfish. TABOR negates that.

And its why I will continue being a Loveland skier until I'm lucky enough to either have a place in the mountains, live elsewhere, or only ski midweek.

 

[oswaldr2]

Hypothetically if Loveland and Abasin were to offer a joint season pass, how much would you pay for it? Note in this scenario, Abasin is independent and this assumes it's a full unlimited to both ski areas.

 

[Monique]

Then all the cars with crappy tires can't get going when the tunnel opens to traffic.

That would be a perfect opportunity to ticket if the law allowed it. No one is supposed to be driving I-70 with crappy tires in inclement weather!

People don't vote for taxes unless it directly supports them.

I'm sick of voting for transportation taxes, only to have the taxes used for something else. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me for the fifth election cycle in a row .... I don't know what the answer is, but it's not to vote for taxes that disappear without any sign of being used for their stated purpose.

Sorry. That stung a little. I used to vote for pretty much all such taxes, but I can't bring myself to do it anymore. It would be different if I ever saw results.

 

[jmeb]

I'm sick of voting for transportation taxes, only to have the taxes used for something else. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me for the fifth election cycle in a row .... I don't know what the answer is, but it's not to vote for taxes that disappear without any sign of being used for their stated purpose.

I don't exactly remember where you live in the Front Range...but based on this sentiment I'm going to put money on Boulder/Longmont area.

 

[jmeb]

Hypothetically if Loveland and Abasin were to offer a joint season pass, how much would you pay for it? Note in this scenario, Abasin is independent and this assumes it's a full unlimited to both ski areas.

Somewhere in the $5-600 range.

 

[Monique]

I don't exactly remember where you live in the Front Range...but based on this sentiment I'm going to put money on Boulder/Longmont area.

Ayup.

 

[pchewn]

DING DING DING. CDOT is woefully underfunded for the growing number of drivers on the roads.. As long as TABOR continues to require every new tax to require voter approval and the measure to read "do you support increasing taxes for ...." -- well, enjoy your wait at the tunnel. People don't vote for taxes unless it directly supports them. It's why we have a representative democracy to encourage people to be less selfish. TABOR negates that.

And its why I will continue being a Loveland skier until I'm lucky enough to either have a place in the mountains, live elsewhere, or only ski midweek.

My brother used to work at CDOT -- snowplow and road maintenance out of Rangely .... He told me their budget was so bad they had to chose to buy more "Rough Road" signs rather than go out and fix the rough road.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Hypothetically if Loveland and Abasin were to offer a joint season pass, how much would you pay for it? Note in this scenario, Abasin is independent and this assumes it's a full unlimited to both ski areas.

That's a tough question but I'll answer it this way...it wouldn't be worth one penny more than I pay for the current Abasin pass because I would never drive past Abasin to go to Loveland so it would add no value to me. That being said I'd probably pay whatever they are charging unless they had a Basin only option.

 

[Monique]

That's a tough question but I'll answer it this way...it wouldn't be worth one penny more than I pay for the current Abasin pass because I would never drive past Abasin to go to Loveland so it would add no value to me. That being said I'd probably pay whatever they are charging unless they had a Basin only option.

But that's because you're doing a "reverse commute." Most I-70 warriors would have to drive past Loveland to get to A Basin.

 

[oswaldr2]

That's a tough question but I'll answer it this way...it wouldn't be worth one penny more than I pay for the current Abasin pass because I would never drive past Abasin to go to Loveland so it would add no value to me. That being said I'd probably pay whatever they are charging unless they had a Basin only option.

Fair point - I'm not sure I'd pay much more than $500 to have Loveland as an additional option. I'm coming from Denver and would drive past Loveland 9 times out of 10 if they were both indy.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

But that's because you're doing a "reverse commute." Most I-70 warriors would have to drive past Loveland to get to A Basin.

True but I'd still drive past Luv every time to get to the Basin if I lived on the Front Range

 

[Monique]

This thread is going to get closed due to politics

Well, hopefully the posts in question will just be deleted. So far only three of us have opined, I think.

 

[Monique]

True but I'd still drive past Luv every time to get to the Basin if I lived on the Front Range

Yes, and if I didn't have the Basin on my pass already, I would probably stop at Luv instead.

 

[raisingarizona]

This was my connection vision. It’s a three staged gondola that connects A-Basin to Loveland Valley and Loveland Valley to Loveland Basin. It would require one pedestrian bridge over the pass road at its summit and one skier bridge on the Loveland side. It also basically follows the pre-existing road corridor and connects all three currently separated areas. This would give two small areas some power against the epic corporate monster (pun absolutely freaking intended).

One could argue that this expansion would cut down on automobile use over the pass, follows an already heavily used and disturbed area, creates a valuable user experience that is European in character as well as creating strength among two privately owned businesses that create a lot of local employment. It’s also using an area that already sees avalanche mitigation work, a win win for everyone really. I think it could be rad. Look the f$ck out Vail.

 

[headybrew]

Where's Elon Musk? Is he a contributor here? I've always dreamed of removing the road, putting a tunnel under Loveland Pass, connecting the ski areas by opening up a new Forest Service leased ski area to connect the two. One pass for all 3, an hour from Denver, and over 6,000 acres with some of the best terrain in the state. I'll keep dreaming...but that pass alone (especially if it still came with free days at other mountians) I would pay $750 for.