We went with weekday passes. Can’t ski everyday, and the weekends are the busiest so it was an easy choice and a savings of about $2500.
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Colorado Arapahoe Basin Impending Free Agency
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We went with weekday passes. Can’t ski everyday, and the weekends are the busiest so it was an easy choice and a savings of about $2500.
It was a facetious comment coming from a Park City resident watching their UT play.
Huh? I disagree on most every count.
Alterra is not going to unload Eldora and/or Winter Park. That would kill their attraction to one of the largest, fast-growing markets of dedicated skiers in the nation. Alterra's HQ is in Denver. They aren't going to reduce local options.
Alterra adding ABasin would be huge for the front range market. ABasin early and end of season is far in excess of anything Alterra currently offers. Most Front Rangers I know would take Abasin / Winter Park / Eldora / Copper over Keystone / Breck / Vail / Beaver Creek. Less busy, more storm tracks, more traffic pattern options, longer season.
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this 100%
I agree with @jmeb.
Eldora maxes out their parking capacity nearly every weekend these days and with a decent percentage of those holding Ikon passes it's a good fit for them. Many families in Boulder county start with Eldora when the kids are young then graduate to the bigger mountains as they need more terrain. Then there's the convenience of putting their teenagers on the city bus to go skiing. There is no other front range ski area with city bus access from the metro area.
Winter Park is the only mountain up I-70 other than Loveland that avoids the mess at the tunnel. It offers some incredible terrain, notably the Mary Jane side. I can't imagine why Alterra would offload it.
Eldora maxes out their parking capacity nearly every weekend these days and with a decent percentage of those holding Ikon passes it's a good fit for them. Many families in Boulder county start with Eldora when the kids are young then graduate to the bigger mountains as they need more terrain. Then there's the convenience of putting their teenagers on the city bus to go skiing. There is no other front range ski area with city bus access from the metro area.
Winter Park is the only mountain up I-70 other than Loveland that avoids the mess at the tunnel. It offers some incredible terrain, notably the Mary Jane side. I can't imagine why Alterra would offload it.
I skied about 20 days at abasin last year almost every one on a weekend and it was crowded about 6 of them and all of those days were before anything else was open or April/May. Even most of those days were no more than a 5 minute wait on lifts other than Black Mountain and who rides Black Mountain?
While I agree generally we'll see how the less busy works out with the new pass.
The most compelling to reason other than early and late season skiing is the terrain at the Basin is head and shoulders above anything else around the front range. Excellent advanced terrain in a compact space that doesn't require traversing all over the place to get to it. This was true before the expansion and it will be doubly true with the new Beavers lift.
I was going to say this. I don't think the crazy days when they need Keystone's lot will happen to that extreme without being on the VR pass.
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This is why I ski The Legend. I'm fairly indifferent to the early season skiing, it's a lot of work as a Denverite to drive up there to ski a couple blue runs in November. That being said, I'm super pumped about using my Ikon at Eldora this weekend just to get out there, so I understand why people hit the WROD at AB early season. I probably would have already skied the WROD if I had unlimited days at AB, but since I've only had 5 each of the last two seasons, I wait for the goods to open.
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Selfishly I'd love to see Abasin go independent and do think they could make it on the Loveland model. That being said, I obviously don't know the how the numbers shake out with Vail and w/o Vail and how Abasin's ownership would value potentially making less without Vail.
My suggestion, go Indy for a year and see how it goes. Maybe you make more money because people don't buy Epic Local passes and buy your season passes. All the money goes into Abasin's pocket.
My suggestion, go Indy for a year and see how it goes. Maybe you make more money because people don't buy Epic Local passes and buy your season passes. All the money goes into Abasin's pocket.
Not local to CO, but I've had an EpicPass several times in recent years and here's what I said about Arapahoe Basin in an article for Pugski from last winter:
Arapahoe Basin was divested from Vail Resorts in 1997. It is a remarkable bonus that it continues to be included on the Epic Pass all these years later. In many respects, A-Basin is the anti-Vail resort and one of the essential "core" places that advanced/expert American skiers should not miss. The bumps of the Pallavicini trail pod are some of the steepest and best anywhere, the chutes off Zuma Cornice are super scenic, and the extreme hike-to terrain of the East Wall is off the charts.
The extraordinary advanced terrain at A-Basin is part of the (excellent) synergy with the predominantly mellower slopes at nearby Keystone. The contrasting vibe between the two mountains, locals vs vacationers, is stark and provides a fuller representation of Colorado skiing. Guests of A-Basin can also benefit from Keystone's lodging and base area infrastructure, including dining options and skier services.
Link to part two of referenced article: https://www.pugski.com/threads/hitchhikers-guide-to-the-vail-galaxy-of-resorts-part-2-of-3.8566/
Alterra needs another I-70 resort. They only control Winter Park and don't even own it as it's a long-term lease from the City and County of Denver.
Powdr Corp owns Copper and Eldora. Altera has a long-standing relationship with Powdr Corp, being together on the RMSP predecessor to the IKON pass, but they are still highly dependant on another company for a critical market.
Alterra must want to own at least one front rage ski area outright. A-basin, Loveland, or whoever is willing to sell?
Powdr Corp owns Copper and Eldora. Altera has a long-standing relationship with Powdr Corp, being together on the RMSP predecessor to the IKON pass, but they are still highly dependant on another company for a critical market.
Alterra must want to own at least one front rage ski area outright. A-basin, Loveland, or whoever is willing to sell?
They're already in bed with VR and as stated above I think it would be huge loss to the Epic pass if they were to leave. With IKON on the scene this is the perfect time for AB to flex their muscles and get a better deal than they currently have.
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This makes me want to make another poll, but it would be somewhat complicated so let's just pose the question here.
For those who ski Arapahoe Basin in some capacity, if they went independent how would that change your pass purchase next year assuming no changes to anything other than Epic lossing AB?
For example: my passes this year are Ikon Base Pass and AB Elevation 4 pack. I would likely change my pass purchase next year to Ikon Base Pass + AB season pass, or maybe I'd do Mountain Collective + AB season pass.
For those who ski Arapahoe Basin in some capacity, if they went independent how would that change your pass purchase next year assuming no changes to anything other than Epic lossing AB?
For example: my passes this year are Ikon Base Pass and AB Elevation 4 pack. I would likely change my pass purchase next year to Ikon Base Pass + AB season pass, or maybe I'd do Mountain Collective + AB season pass.
The gondola from Kellogg, ID to mid Mt at Silver Mt is 3.1 miles long, the longest lift in North America and one of the longest single-stage gondolas in the world.
I already buy the Ikon Base Pass and an Abasin Doubledown pass (a 2 year pass every 2 years) so my buying habits wouldn't change but my enjoyment of Abasin would go up immensely
I completely forgot that Powdr is still separate--my bad! All the other ski areas in the region are operating permits from the Forest Service... I'm not at all sure what the specific differences are, but they're not free-and-clear ownership, either. Whether Alterra wants their own front range ski area, I think, depends on what their long-term strategy is.
As @tball pointed out, I was confusing Alterra and Powdr ownership... I agree that Alterra's not going to sell Eldora, since they don't even own it
But I think a lot hinges on just what Alterra's strategy is. @Muleski has made the argument in the past, and did so again recently in this thread, that Alterra's been telling its investors that their long-term play is not about competing for day skiers or going head-to-head with Vail, it's about applying the Aspen model across more properties to drive increased revenue from big spenders (or at least that's my interpretation). If this is accurate, then they're looking for a way either to lure high-value vacationers to Winter Park or to unload it. Spiking it's visitation numbers up with what looks like an unsustainable Ikon product gives the appearance that they want to sell it, but investing in a big new gondola says maybe they're in it for the long haul. Maybe they're not even sure yet. But luring lots more day-trippers from the front range is only going to decrease its appeal to choosy vacationers, as the crowds will erode its reputation.
And if all that holds true, then also bigger crowds. Which will lead more high-value tourists to take a closer look at the Vail properties, which seems to be the opposite of what Alterra's telling their shareholders their strategy is.
Overall, I'm doubtful that Alterra wants either Loveland or A-Basin. But if they do, they're going to want Loveland more because it's so much closer to Winter Park.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet: A-Basin is the only place* that employees of resorts/ski schools in the "Real Deal" (basically everyone not Vail) and Vail system can ski together in Colorado as part of their employee benefits.
VR employees can ski at Vail resorts properties, Alterra employees (and anyone else that participates in the "Colorado Ski Country" marketing Campaign) can ski at those resorts. A-basin is/was the only resort that crossed over, and is nice as a meetup location because of that.
*Telluride might also fit that bill now... I don't know what access VR employees will have to it, but it appears to still be part of the CO ski country website at this time.
VR employees can ski at Vail resorts properties, Alterra employees (and anyone else that participates in the "Colorado Ski Country" marketing Campaign) can ski at those resorts. A-basin is/was the only resort that crossed over, and is nice as a meetup location because of that.
*Telluride might also fit that bill now... I don't know what access VR employees will have to it, but it appears to still be part of the CO ski country website at this time.
As @tball pointed out, I was confusing Alterra and Powdr ownership... I agree that Alterra's not going to sell Eldora, since they don't even own it
While I appreciate that prospective -- that it isn't Alterra's intent to compete on exactly the same model, it is not what I see going on or have heard from reliable sources. It won't be exactly the same model, but getting local skiing populations is foundational. Avid skiers that day trip to Copper / Winter Park / Abasin / Eldora are often the same people who go on very spendy trips to Aspen, Jackson, Deer Valley and the like.
Source: I've drank a number of bottles of wine with my neighbor who is an SVP at Alterra.
So much closer? They are 5 miles apart. The vast majority of days, its about 15min difference.
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