Another cyclist killed

[scott43]

No mountie, no stop.

Technically, they can't be ticketed I don't believe. I guess it depends on jurisdiction, but in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act speeding infractions only apply to motorized vehicles. So bicycles are exempt from those tickets. There may be municipal by-laws for speeding but I doubt the police would try to enforce that. They just don't care.

 

[markojp]

Speeding isn't the issue in the third vid.

 

[Plai]

From Merriam-Webster:
A$$hat noun
\ 'as-hat \
Any person who paints and individual, who is also a member of a group, as though all members of that group are alike.

Examples of a$$hat in a Sentence
// She was pissed at the gang of a$$hat cyclists were blocking the whole lane and were making her late to her spin class so she now hates all cyclists and doesn't give any focks if any of them get hit, maimed, killed.

This is when we get to a real problem.

"You are inconveniencing me, I will murder you!"

No one is saying that maiming/killing cyclists is "not a problem". These statements imply that the cyclists in the video are "not a problem". I disagree.

The behavior of the group cyclists blocking the road is an intentional disrespect for others. In other words, a flagrant middle finger.
The video calls it out. There's no endorsement of injuring the cyclists. There's an attempt to engage in dialogue which is blatantly ignored by the cyclists.

Per @oldschoolskier post above ... it boils down to the "Golden Rule": Treat others as you would like to be treated.
And, with @oldschoolskier, I drive, cycle, and walk our public roads and would like everyone to share (with respect) our resources.

On the emotional side: Really, do we really need to have this discussion?!? Are we so segregated that there's no longer respect for each other?

 

[cantunamunch]

No one is saying that maiming/killing cyclists is "not a problem". These statements imply that the cyclists in the video are "not a problem". I disagree.

The behavior of the group cyclists blocking the road is an intentional disrespect for others. In other words, a flagrant middle finger..

No, it's not. It's a deliberate act to force all passing to be restrained to the opposing traffic lane. The drivers shouldn't feel entitled to pass cyclists where there is a double yellow any more than they should feel entitled to pass a tractor, a slow bus or truck - or a car limping home on a donut tire. Or an Amish wagon.

Yes, I know the regulation mandates the cyclists to stay right. It's not a safety law, it's a car entitlement law. What the cyclists are doing there is preventing any driver from giving a "I didn't see them" excuse, and they are preventing themselves from being forced off the right of the road by people doing half-inch-margin passing.

Let's apply that golden rule - if you are driving, slowly, do you really want people passing you on a double yellow? Let's say half their car is in your lane and half in the other. Why would a cyclist feel any safer than you would in a car during that move?

Drivers. Entitled.

Whinging Loudly About What Not Being Able To Do To Cyclists What Would Be Blatantly Illegal With Any Other Vehicle In Front Of Them.

 

[Plai]

Let's apply that golden rule - if you are driving, slowly, do you really want people passing you on a double yellow? Let's say half their car is in your lane and half in the other. Why would a cyclist feel any safer than you would in a car during that move?

Apples/oranges: A car/tractor going slowly needs to apply the slow-moving vehicle rule and move out of the way too [where they can.] [Yes, there are signs all over where slower driver should be in the right lane that so few slow drivers heed. Same symptom.] I get it, when there's no room to pull over, be patient.

But, we're talking about cyclists... there's room if in single file... As a cyclist, I feel safer after the car has passed and not pacing me slowly. There are several double yellow hills here, where it would take me 3-5 mins to climb, and a car 3 secs to pass. Maybe the slow vehicle rule should apply... the slower vehicle (bike) should pull over. For me, there's been room.

As for it being double yellow as the only occasion the group cyclists video are blocking the road... I don't think so. We'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[cantunamunch]

Can we agree that cyclists deserve the grace of being able to initiate let-through just like applies to all those other vehicles?

But, we're talking about cyclists... there's room if in single file... As a cyclist, I feel safer after the car has passed and not pacing me slowly. There are several double yellow hills here, where it would take me 3-5 mins to climb, and a car 3 secs to pass. Maybe the slow vehicle rule should apply... the slower vehicle (bike) should pull over. For me, there's been room.

Let's say everyone is being both patient and courteous.

I've been in way too many people-snakes, as a driver, cyclist, and skater, to regard 'single file' as automatically safer or easier. Pothole? Pavement crack? Large branch? Someone (hope not) falling? Oops, no room. How about a cyclist trying to pass another cyclist? Again, no room. And then you have a car splitting the group, i.e. moving at the speed of the slowest person in front of that car, slowing down the cyclists behind and bunching them. The second car attempting to pass is going to find their day well slower than if that 10, 20, 30-rider bunch was bunched to allow one-go passing on a broken yellow.

Let-through at the person-in-front's discretion, not automatically, is the best solution I see.

 

[tball]

Colorado has this well covered by the law. Cyclists need to ride single file by law, except under certain circumstances:

(6) (a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file; except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the following circumstances: (i) When riding two abreast will not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic; or (ii) When riding on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. (b) Persons riding two abreast shall ride within a single lane
https://www.codot.gov/programs/bike...ed-manual/2008-10-official-bicycling-laws.pdf
​

Motorists can pass bicycles on a double yellow line if it can be done safely.

If folks just followed these guidelines everyone would get along:
https://www.bicyclecolorado.org/ride-colorado/rules-of-the-road/

Good luck with that ever happening.

 

[scott43]

The problem I've always seen, as stated by Tuna, is that drivers feel entitled and don't respect cyclists, period. One of the reasons I never saw bicycles as a career was the attitude by 90% of the population that you ride a bike because you're DUI and don't have a license..or you have a stolen television under your arm and can't afford a car. That same 90% of the population when they see a cyclist on the road immediately thinks "get out of my f'ing way!" They may dial that back when they realize they're being a bit stupid..but that's the knee-jerk reaction I think for most drivers. They don't really want to kill anyone, that's the 1% of crazies in the world..but they certainly don't offer the respect that is appropriate. Yeah pack riding is irritating but it may just be safer..it also probably irritates the 90% and reinforces that hatred. I wish there were a way to make everyone happy..I just don't know how other than separate right of ways..

 

[markojp]

Honestly, out here I think folks who live outside of Seattle proper view road cyclists as 'wealthy, urban, elite, 'libtards', who are worthy of harrasment. Honestly, I don't care if they're yelling at me from 8 ft away. If there's a need to 'school' cyclists, they woke up with a crappy life and will go to bed with one. Not my problem. When they buzz and endanger cyclists, then I'm out. I rarely ride in Snohomish Co. after a couple of very needless close calls with angry F-150 drivers with all flags waving. Anyhow....

 

[HardDaysNight]

He was right, of course, right all along,
But he’s just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

I spent some time in the DC area this summer visiting wife’s family. In my opinion, based on many observations, anyone who rides a bike on the roads around there has a death wish. Not defending crazy drivers but it is what it is... see above!

 

[Jwrags]

Oregon law also allows a car to pass a cyclist with the yellow line, as long as it can be done "safely". In addition, we do not have the three feet rule but rather a car should pass a cyclist and leave enough room that if the cyclist falls over there is room to clear. That is certainly more than three feet. The cyclist is also required to ride as far to the right as is "safe". In other words, in the bike lane or on the shoulder but if it is covered with glass or rocks, making it unsafe, you can ride further over. Of course none of this matters if you get hit by a car.

There is a short section of rode that I ride regularly that has no shoulder and is on a curve. I used to ride on the edge until an idiot driver decided it was a good place to pass with an oncoming car in the opposite lane. I now ride that curve in the lane and block traffic because it seems safer than being run off the embankment.

 

[Plai]

Let's say everyone is being both patient and courteous

That's been the majority of my personal experience. There are always bad apples..... (grrr..)... And more and more frequently they are in cars/trucks.

Let-through at the person-in-front's discretion, not automatically, is the best solution I see.

This I agree.

 

[oldschoolskier]

The issue is some drivers don’t understand cyclists making it dangerous for them.

The second issue is there are few cyclists that enrage drivers in their stupid self centered riding habits that makes it unsafe for the rest because of pissed off drivers.

Both need to smarten up.

Lets stop picking on one side or the other and critic the idiots on both sides that are causing the issues as there are more than enough of them.

In that regard might I suggest that this thread has become a useless blame game and maybe we should shut it down before we go at each others throats and ruin the good thing of this site.

 

[Plai]

Heard this radio report and was amazed
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/08/29/death-toll-red-light-runners-10-year-high/

"Even though 85 percent of drivers think running red lights is dangerous, nearly one in three drivers say they have run a red light within the past month, even though they knew they could have safely stopped, according to AAA."

What?!?

 

[LiquidFeet]

...more from that report:

The latest figures show that 939 people were killed in 2017 by vehicles that had run through a red light. That is the highest death toll from such crashes since 2008.
According to AAA, two people are killed every day in the U.S. by drivers who don’t stop for signals.

 

[Scruffy]

...more from that report:

The latest figures show that 939 people were killed in 2017 by vehicles that had run through a red light. That is the highest death toll from such crashes since 2008.
According to AAA, two people are killed every day in the U.S. by drivers who don’t stop for signals.

And where are the cops? Over the recent years, I've seen enforcement of most traffic laws wane, except for speeding, and even there they only target three point infractions.

 

[scott43]

And where are the cops? Over the recent years, I've seen enforcement of most traffic laws wane, except for speeding, and even there they only target three point infractions.

Budget.. We have traffic cops and beat cops..traffic guys..maybe there are 5 cars on the road at any given time for a city of 3 million people that's 60sq. km.. Good luck with that..

 

[scott43]

...more from that report:

The latest figures show that 939 people were killed in 2017 by vehicles that had run through a red light. That is the highest death toll from such crashes since 2008.
According to AAA, two people are killed every day in the U.S. by drivers who don’t stop for signals.

Honestly..with the average skill level of most drivers and the amount of cars on the road, I'm surprised the number isn't much higher.. Not saying that's great or anything..

 

[Plai]

"Even though 85 percent of drivers think running red lights is dangerous, nearly one in three drivers say they have run a red light within the past month, even though they knew they could have safely stopped, according to AAA

with the average skill level of most drivers

You probably didn't mean it this way, but it's how it reads....

Don't think it's a "skill" issue.

 

[James]

Obtaining a license should be much more difficult. The way were headed, if the car doesn't do something- beep, brake, talk, vibrate the wheel, everything is hunky dory and nothing to worry about.
At least that requires some level of rudimentary competency, unlike obtaining a firearm.