And so it begins- 3d Printed Ski boots

[ted]

https://www.tailored-fits.com/en/tailored-fits-ski-boots/

"Talk amongst yourselves"

 

[Dakine]

Interesting and I expect we will see a lot more of this kind of technology.
In some ways, ski boots are an ideal item for 3D printing technology.
These guys are only talking liners but the shell itself will follow.

 

[crgildart]

Like any boot fitting challenge, the hard part isn't so much the walking in off the street fit.. It's the feet shrink or swell after skiing a couple hours fit that's challenging.

 

[coops]

Unless they're 3d printing the shell.. what's the point?
My feet aren't too bad, but even mine need a bit of shell moulding (easier now with the heat mouldable shells) - and my best friends appallingly lumpy feet would need serious punching of the shell even before heat moulding the shell (which is why he's still clinging on to some ancient Salomon boots... gawd knows how old now).

A foamed liner... is a 3d mould of your foot, just without the trendy additive production method - and the foam can be adjusted to the skiers firmness and ability etc requirements.

Or if...

Like any boot fitting challenge, the hard part isn't so much the walking in off the street fit.. It's the feet shrink or swell after skiing a couple hours fit that's challenging.

well, Zipfits. I've had a DVT in the calf and am on daily blood thinners, and varying alcohol intake amongst other variables are no problem as far as foot swelling issues


Who nows that that shell will flex like... but if you're going to go to 3d printing trouble and expense.. shouldn't you also take the time to get the cuff alignment laterally and fore/aft correct for this custom boot?

And get an English speaking proof reader - "foot mussels"
"To fit your legs and feet perfectly in your ski boots we are able to digitally simulate all natural movements you can do with your upper and lower foot joints. The shapes of your fibula and foot mussels are precisely morphed to generate a perfect fit with your well aligned standing position in your boot."

Bah, humbug.

 

[James]

"foot mussels"

Yes. Those grow when people sit on docks with their feet in the water. Then fall asleep, pass out from drinking. It's a big problem in Maine where the water is cold so the feet go numb anyway.

Well this is a start. They say you can't polish a turd, but if you freeze it first you can.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Reto Rindlisbacher the CEO of Tailored Fits has worked in the skiing industry since 1994 and has held senior positions at Völkl (managing director) and Nordica (brand manager), so he has some idea about what he is doing. One of the shareholders in the company is Beat Zaugg the CEO of Scott, he certainly knows what he’s doing. Scott were involved in the design of the shell.

The scanning system comes from TechMed 3D in Canada, a company specializing in 3D body scanning systems https://techmed3d.com/products/structure-sensor/ The 3D printing is carried out by the Belgian company Materialise https://www.materialise.com/en/cases/tailored-fits-goes-off-piste-ski-boot-design.

In 2017 Reto gave a talk about the boot at the Materialise World Summit

 

[ted]

I think they have a long way to go, but I applaud the fact that they are trying and have good people involved.

 

[ted]

Reto Rindlisbacher the CEO of Tailored Fits has worked in the skiing industry since 1994 and has held senior positions at Völkl (managing director) and Nordica (brand manager), so he has some idea about what he is doing. One of the shareholders in the company is Beat Zaugg the CEO of Scott, he certainly knows what he’s doing. Scott were involved in the design of the shell.

The scanning system comes from TechMed 3D in Canada, a company specializing in 3D body scanning systems https://techmed3d.com/products/structure-sensor/ The 3D printing is carried out by the Belgian company Materialise https://www.materialise.com/en/cases/tailored-fits-goes-off-piste-ski-boot-design.

In 2017 Reto gave a talk about the boot at the Materialise World Summit

Thanks for video link.
From video it sounds like shell is standard injection molded, with the liner being more of a molded inner boot and more substantial than most liners.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I was just shopping for new eyeglass frames and the sales woman said the one's I was holding were 3d printed. Said she didn't really know what that means, but they are really good.

 

[Monster]

They say you can't polish a turd. . .

Yeah, Mythbusters busted that one once - ew. . .

 

[crgildart]

well, Zipfits. I've had a DVT in the calf and am on daily blood thinners, and varying alcohol intake amongst other variables are no problem as far as foot swelling issues

Does your hematologist know you are skiing? Mrs crg is also on blood thinners 4 life and she won't even ride a bike because her hemo has her afraid even a light bump on the head could cause a fatal brain bleed.. and what she takes has no quick antidote. If it were me I'd probably still ski and skateboard and bike and.... just not tell my care providers about that..

But, with great fitting boots the chances of crashing and hitting your head goes down.

 

[eok]

...
In some ways, ski boots are an ideal item for 3D printing technology.
These guys are only talking liners but the shell itself will follow.

I remain skeptical. The 3D printing materials I'm familiar with are suboptimal in mechanical applications where the product is supposed to repeatedly flex/bend/deflect/etc. 3D printing a shell directly is particularly a bad idea because imperfections in the additive process are unavoidable. Imperfections = weakness. Not a big deal for a 3D printed troll doll or Raspberry Pi case - but a huge problem for a critical mechanical part like a ski boot shell. I could see 3D printing a mold for a custom shell but not the shell itself. Improvements/advancements in 3D printing materials are happening rapidly - but I think it would be some years before a ski boot shell could be printed directly - reliably & consistently enough to be safe ... and to be profitable.

Plus: a lot of people don't realize it takes FOREVER to 3D print anything of even modest scale, using even the best professsional grade 3D printers. Time is $$$. With current tech, a ski boot could take a whole day (or more), assuming the 3D printing & materials all behaved perfectly the whole time. So, I'm pretty sure most ski boots will continue to be born from molds into the foreseeable future. It's just more efficient.

 

[Magi]

I remain skeptical. The 3D printing materials I'm familiar with are suboptimal in mechanical applications where the product is supposed to repeatedly flex/bend/deflect/etc. 3D printing a shell directly is particularly a bad idea because imperfections in the additive process are unavoidable. Imperfections = weakness. Not a big deal for a 3D printed troll doll or Raspberry Pi case - but a huge problem for a critical mechanical part like a ski boot shell. I could see 3D printing a mold for a custom shell but not the shell itself. Improvements/advancements in 3D printing materials are happening rapidly - but I think it would be some years before a ski boot shell could be printed directly - reliably & consistently enough to be safe ... and to be profitable.

Plus: a lot of people don't realize it takes FOREVER to 3D print anything of even modest scale, using even the best professsional grade 3D printers. Time is $$$. With current tech, a ski boot could take a whole day (or more), assuming the 3D printing & materials all behaved perfectly the whole time. So, I'm pretty sure most ski boots will continue to be born from molds into the foreseeable future. It's just more efficient.

Mechanical properties of the material are directly related to the material used and the printing process used. ABS plastic out of a $300 reprap kit will suck. Laser sintered custom materials out of 50k-300k additive manufacturing machines are used regularly in aerospace and high end automotive manufacturing today. So it very much depends on what you're trying to do, and what the value of the finished part is. Looks like they're using FDM based on a picture on the website, but materialise (the company actually making them for tailored fits) doesn't list thermoplastic-PU as an option for FDM, only what appear to be ABS variants...


As for $$$ being money - The boots sell for ~$1600. Assume they're using an industrial quality printer - that print times are 24 hours (I'd bet they're closer to 8-12) - and they get 50% of MSRP from a retailer. At $800/day that means a 60k printer prints about $290k a year, which is about a 6x gross return on capital (~15x if you depreciate the printer over 3 years). Seems workable at a glance.

 

[coops]

Does your hematologist know you are skiing? Mrs crg is also on blood thinners 4 life and she won't even ride a bike because her hemo has her afraid even a light bump on the head could cause a fatal brain bleed.. and what she takes has no quick antidote. If it were me I'd probably still ski and skateboard and bike and.... just not tell my care providers about that..

But, with great fitting boots the chances of crashing and hitting your head goes down.

I am also on a non-warfarin daily pill, so no antidote to it. But, it helps thin blood that is overly prone to clotting... it's not meant to make my blood unclottable
So no... once you've started treatment and confirmed tolerance etc and no problems, then there is no reason to restrict activity or lifestyle for me - I suppose more agressive blood thinning would be a different matter, but that would usually be inpatient with constant monitoring after a heparin injection etc.

Warfarin, on the other hand, is more dose sensitive... and you could end up with uncontrolled bleeds etc, never mind worrying about how your green vegetable intake is affecting the blood clotting times. The Xarelto i'm on seems a much better way...


To get back to 3d printing boots... there may have been a time for this, but with such major improvements in heat mouldable shells and better liners (even the OEM standard ones) any benefit is questionable even before considering the increased cost - and if you're not custom moulding the shell... then what? Stuff the foot in an oversize shell and fill it with a Custom inner? Really? You can go to Surefoot and get that done with foam liners

Anyone who complains about the cost of a zipfit ( or bootdoc foamed) liner should be pointed to this website just to put it in perspective.