Alterra Mountain Company To Acquire Solitude Mountain Resort in Utah

[Wasatchman]

Makes altera relevant for locals next season e.g. 2019-2020. But too late to change things for 2018-19 as most who were gonna buy one already have a pass.

Makes the DV pass much more attractive too.

Hmmm. What if Alterra decides to make Solitude exclusive like Deer Valley. So they only offer limited days to Soli on IKON pass and only way you get unlimited access is to purchase a super premium DV/Solitude pass? That would make the $2400 DV pass price a bit more palatable and carve out an interesting super premium niche.

Not that I'm expecting the above to be the way it will go, but that would be more interesting. Still think this whole thing sucks either way, but the above would at least be a bit more interesting.

 

[New2]

Management at Alta and Snowbird strike me as pretty smart... which means I really doubt they'd have signed on with Ikon without some pretty solid assurance that it wouldn't erode their own pass sales significantly. My guess is that their contracts prevent Ikon from adding any additional Utah ski days in 2018/2019. And that they'll both be out of Ikon for 2019/2020 unless they get purchased first. And I think Alterra's more likely to expand its partnership with or buy out Boyne, adding Brighton to the 2019/2020 Ikon pass, than to get Alta or Snowbird.

 

[Daniel]

In a meeting with employees this morning, Solitude Mountain Resort General Manager Kim Mayhew stated that the acquisition by Alterra will be finalized in 60 days or less. Both entities are striving to conclude the deal by July 31 if possible. In regard to the inclusion of SMR with this year's Ikon pass, this matter is currently being worked on but nothing definite has been decided. Look for more capital improvement projects in the next couple or so years at Solitude.

 

[Philpug]

Hmmm. What if Alterra decides to make Solitude exclusive like Deer Valley. So they only offer limited days to Soli on IKON pass and only way you get unlimited access is to purchase a super premium DV/Solitude pass? That would make the $2400 DV pass price a bit more palatable and carve out an interesting super premium niche.

Not that I'm expecting the above to be the way it will go, but that would be more interesting. Still think this whole thing sucks either way, but the above would at least be a bit more interesting.

I think they realized they need a resort on that area that does not have limited days.

 

[Wasatchman]

I think they reaize they need a resort on that area that does not have limited days.

I think you are right @Philpug. I think you are right.

 

[Eleeski]

Management at Alta and Snowbird strike me as pretty smart...

Aren't these the owners who screwed up the Park City lease? Hopefully they are savvy enough to optimize the Ikon visits. Disclaimer, I'm a tourist with an Ikon pass whose favorite Utah mountain is Snowbird. And hoping some of the Ikon hordes go to Solitude. I'll be bummed if Ikon drops Snowbird.

Eric

 

[Wasatchman]

Aren't these the owners who screwed up the Park City lease? Hopefully they are savvy enough to optimize the Ikon visits. Disclaimer, I'm a tourist with an Ikon pass whose favorite Utah mountain is Snowbird. And hoping some of the Ikon hordes go to Solitude. I'll be bummed if Ikon drops Snowbird.

Eric

For details, please see thread started by @Muleski about Ian Cumming passing away. When the Cummings purchased a majority interest in Snowbird, they kept Snowbird management in place. Alta is under different management/ownership than Snowbird.

Pure speculation at this point, but it would seem very unlikely that Snowbird and Alta would participate in the IKON pass after 2018/2019 after Alterra acquires Solitude and becomes more of a direct competitor.

 

[New2]

I think they realized they need a resort on that area that does not have limited days.

Why? So that they can successfully undercut their season pass sales at DV? If they want to make a serious play for SLC-local market share, Solitude was exactly the wrong purchase. Sure, they might be able to lure more pass buyers by dangling low-priced Ikon passes with full access, but if they did manage to improve market share by much, they'd really alienate customers since they don't have the parking to accommodate them.

I think Solitude makes sense as one of Alterra's portfolio of destinations, and as a long-term investment... but I don't see it as a viable strategy for significantly increasing Utah Ikon sales.

Hmmm. What if Alterra decides to make Solitude exclusive like Deer Valley. So they only offer limited days to Soli on IKON pass and only way you get unlimited access is to purchase a super premium DV/Solitude pass? That would make the $2400 DV pass price a bit more palatable and carve out an interesting super premium niche.

I think, when Ikon adds Soli (2019-2020 season is my guess) it will be only with limited days. My guess is that they'll continue offering Solitude and BCC passes, but if demand is high enough maybe they could get away with making it more exclusive.

Aren't these the owners who screwed up the Park City lease?

Well, the descendants of the guy who was CEO when folks under him screwed up the Park City lease, at least.

 

[sbooker]

I think it probably helps the family/intermediate destination visitors to Utah. Alta/Bird doesn't excite any of the intermediates I know (in fact they're scared of it), but they loved SolBright. No one would go to just ski Solitude, but I think it is a fairly nice addition to the lineup in Utah.

I second the worry about the crowds at Solitude now though. Will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Alta and Snowbird very much excite this intermediate. Both hills and especially Alta are very under rated for 'less than advanced' skiers.

 

[fatbob]

I absolutely respect what you're saying and I have my doubts about the long term affect but I am also hopeful that Alterra has a better view based on the leaders in the group and their view of how the other pacman has been gobbling up dots.

I think we have to be a bit careful in the assumptions here. While Alterra might have lots of highly skilled people in the business and quality engaged investors we have to remember that first and foremost it is about BUSINESS. It isn't their job to protect the soul of the sport or create lots of consumer choice. Now they aren't going to rape the industry entirely because that's probably highly detrimental to their business model but they are neither a white knight compared to the evil of Vail nor a charity.

And worst case if the overall ski experience for consumers is made worse as a result of the duopoly, Alterra execs won't exactly be suffering - they'll be off to their heli ops or Yellowstone Club or whatever. I don't think it'll come to that because I suspect they'll be smart enough not to push the passes past the point where the reputation of their properties for a good ski experience is hurt. Yeah you might have to stand in line at peak times, hopefully that line won't be the clusterf**k that is returning from Blue Sky Basin or uploading the Whistler Village Gondi in the holidays.

 

[fatbob]

Why? So that they can successfully undercut their season pass sales at DV? If they want to make a serious play for SLC-local market share, Solitude was exactly the wrong purchase. Sure, they might be able to lure more pass buyers by dangling low-priced Ikon passes with full access, but if they did manage to improve market share by much, they'd really alienate customers since they don't have the parking to accommodate them.

I don't think it makes a hill of beans to DV pass sales - DV customers are DV customers,and Ikon is never going to give unlimited access to DV. The only impact it has on DV passholders is if more SLC locals switch to Ikon (as they now have a daily driver hill) and therefore are also around to max out their DV days.

All this assuming Soli becomes an unlimited hill. Can't see why it wouldn't but maybe 14 days or so would do for the target market (with DV and Altabird SLC locals then have 14 weekends to warrrior so more than enough for most)

 

[Philpug]

Why? So that they can successfully undercut their season pass sales at DV? If they want to make a serious play for SLC-local market share, Solitude was exactly the wrong purchase. Sure, they might be able to lure more pass buyers by dangling low-priced Ikon passes with full access, but if they did manage to improve market share by much, they'd really alienate customers since they don't have the parking to accommodate them.

I think Solitude makes sense as one of Alterra's portfolio of destinations, and as a long-term investment... but I don't see it as a viable strategy for significantly increasing Utah Ikon sales.

I don't think this purchase was to undercut the Deer Valley passes, it is a different clientele and I doubt more than a very small percentage of people from SLC have DV passes. The Alterra pass has had some sweet spots in it for sure, Colorado and Tahoe were good, Utah not so much with the limited days at Snowbird, Alta and DV, this gives the pass holder a core mountain and still have those other areas to treat them selves not not worry as much about counting their days.

If Solitude was the exactly wrong purchase for the SLC skiers, what was the right one? What were the options that were available?

 

[Mike King]

So, how, exactly, has the consumer been harmed by the consolidation in the industry? Sure, day passes are more expensive (probably), but season passes are much cheaper. There's more people on the slopes, but there's also been a lot more investment in facilities and, arguably, a better quality product as a result. The proliferation of multi-resort passes has, arguably, increased choice, not limited it. And one could argue that the reduced pass prices has kept more people in the sport than otherwise might be there.

Sure, the consolidation has put (a lot) of pressure on the independent resorts, but those resorts already faced the pressure of being dependent on the snow conditions and the resulting variability in their profitability. Vail found a superior business model, and the implications are now rolling through the industry resulting in the consolidation that we now see. Are there bad things about it? Sure, but there are also a lot of benefits for consumers.

Not so sure about employees.

Mike

 

[jmeb]

I agree that on net maybe right now is good for the nameless consumer.

That doesn't meant that there aren't a lot of people that are hurt by it. I talked to my buddy last night who works at Snowbird but mostly skis at Solitude. He was pretty upset about it. It means the last bastion of non-insanity on powder days in the cottonwoods will now see a ton more traffic. He's hurt by it. People who value the ski experience of a certain mountain and have built their life around it are hurt when that mountain is bought out and the experience changes.

Does it hurt John Doe skis 10 days of a year and lives elsewhere. No. It's great for them. It's great for people who have the time and monetary resources to travel to utilize the diverse locations on the pass. Its good for people who prefer high speed lifts than to people who prefer slow lifts and better snow.

And none of this says anything about what it does for local employment. Or the fact that monopolies have a history of entering the market with low prices, and then consistently raising them as competition disappears.

 

[blackke17]

Is Solitude for sure going to be included on IKON this upcoming season? I don't think that is for sure yet. In which case you'll be damn glad that you bought Big Cottonwood pass because it will be the last year you're going to have that experience.

EDIT: if deal closes late 3rd quarter Alterra may not have enough time to include unlimited Solitude for IKON pass.

yeah good point, could be the last year for the BCC option.

 

[fatbob]

Sure, but there are also a lot of benefits for consumers.

Not so sure about employees.

Mike

I think the main problem in the ski industry is that employees are like consumers in that there are plenty of fish. The big corps recognise this and until people stop voluntarily working for low pay because of the perks of the job (lifestyle/free skiing/party culture) things aren't going to change. Credit to places like Aspen that want to do something different but I highly doubt in most ski towns if you can find a place to live you are forced to work for the ski corp because of an absence of other jobs. Seems to me in the US at least that the constraint is always housing not job pickings.

 

[Philpug]

Sorry, but over all this is good for the industry, we need skiing to be more accessable by more people otherwise it will be available to just a select few. These purchases are keeping the cost down, now to educate the consumer that these passes are a great deal and that a day of skiing does not have to include a $180 day ticket...which is the stupid tax of the sport. When you have a family come out for vacation in January, instead of charging them that 180/day for the 5 days tell them that they can still get a pass for $699 and by doing so, they can come back again (to spend even MORE money) at the resort.

We need to get more people skiing. We need to get more people buying gear. We need to get more people on Pugski.com talking skiing . A high tide raises all ships. As an industry we need it.

 

[jmeb]

Sorry -- I disagree that this is inherently a good way to get more skiers. It's a great way to keep skiers skiing.

The consolidation of the industry has made it even harder for independent resorts that were the classic feeder resorts. It has jacked up the price of day tickets, rentals, and lessons near everywhere. It has made many real estate markets much more expensive.

Increasing the value of a season pass does not lower the barriers of entry to get more people skiing.

 

[Philpug]

Sorry -- I disagree that this is inherently a good way to get more skiers. It's a great way to keep skiers skiing.
.

And that is more skier days thus more people skiing.

 

[fatbob]

We need to get more people skiing. We need to get more people buying gear. We need to get more people on Pugski.com talking skiing . A high tide raises all ships. As an industry we need it.

As an industry YOU need it. As consumers we might like a little benign neglect and our favourite stashes go unmolested......We don't really need new gear (and most of us here probably have a garage or closet full to use even if a single pair of skis is never pressed again). Just sayin......