Alterra Mountain Company to acquire Crystal Mountain Resort

[cantunamunch]

Does this change anybody's plans for the Ikon outside of the PNW to travel there?

Yes.

 

[John O]

While this is probably true, Crystal makes a great destination when it has snow in a year where other destinations are in a drought. With the Ikon pass it makes this more likely.

I'd agree this makes it much more likely, but still probably not a lot of people if I had to guess. It all depends on what people are looking for in their ski trips... I don't think you can argue that the experience staying at Crystal isn't quite the same as the rest of the major resorts on the Ikon pass (of which there are many to pick from).

 

[David Chaus]

I'd agree this makes it much more likely, but still probably not a lot of people if I had to guess. It all depends on what people are looking for in their ski trips... I don't think you can argue that the experience staying at Crystal isn't quite the same as the rest of the major resorts on the Ikon pass (of which there are many to pick from).

Absolutely in agreement with you there. Nonetheless, if Crystal has snow and Squaw/CO/SLC does not, I’ll bet we’ll be playing host/guide to a number of Pugskiers, who may not require the full resort experience. I’m mostly thinking of the luncatic fringe who bother to participate in ski forums, right?

 

[cantunamunch]

. I’m mostly thinking of the luncatic fringe who bother to participate in ski forums, right?

So...tell us about early season patterns at Crystal, up to NYE, in weak El Nino years?

 

[KingGrump]

the luncatic fringe

Hey, I resemble that statement.

 

[David Chaus]

So...tell us about early season patterns at Crystal, up to NYE, in weak El Nino years?

Actually El Niño years don’t have much consistent correlation with snowfall around here. The only really bad year in recent memory was 2014-15 which was due to an anomaly we called “the Blob” which diverted the normal flow of cold air from the North Pacific and sent us a constant series of atmospheric rivers from Hawaii (called Pineapple Express). The Blob was actually broken up by a moderately strong El Niño in 2015-16 and we had a good year.

The most snowfall tends to be La Nada years. I guess we’ll have to see, usually the snow starts in early November, everyone opens in time for Thanksgiving and a lot, if not most double diamond terrain opens by Xmas.

 

[David Chaus]

Hey, I resemble that statement.

That, you do.

 

[cantunamunch]

Actually El Niño years don’t have much consistent correlation with snowfall around here. .

Good to know

 

[Posaune]

Colorado and Utah, in fact anywhere in the Rockies or Sierras has much better quality snow. It rains all of the time in the Cascades and what new snow there is doesn't deserve the moniker "powder." Nothing to see here. Keep moving along...

 

[markojp]

IMHO, this will be good. Stevens desperately needed an influx of capital for lift replacement. Crystal has excellent lift infrastructure and grooming machinery (drivers, meh,... somedays good, somedays not so good), but there's no 'there' there. There's been plans for years for new lodging at the base area. Once that happens, Crystal will be well worth a M-F midweek ski week trip... think Taos north. The area already gets a good influx of powder chasers when the rest of the country isn't popping. All in all, it makes a ton of sense and seemed to be a 'when' rather than 'if'. I think the owner did quite well in the sale, so there you go. Yes, I'm guessing we'll lose the 10 and under ski free deal which is a bummer.... don't know if that'll happen this year or not, but it sure makes it more likely that I'll go back to teach there.

 

[New2]

I'll go way out on a limb and predict this is the last year for the Cascadia pass. Good news for Seattle. Maybe bad news for the Idaho ski areas that thrive on road-trippers from Seattle?

 

[pchewn]

Steven's Pass is also part of the Powder Alliance, where you get 3 days at 19 resorts as part of a home season pass. My home ski pass (FUSION PASS for Timberline and Mt Hood Skibowl) is also part of the Powder Alliance. I'm guessing with the buy-out that this is the last year Steven's will be on the Powder Alliance, so I'm planning on getting there.

In fact, I'm formulating a plan to do a NW road-trip of the Powder Alliance areas: Timberline, Mt Hood Skibowl, Steven's Pass, Bridger Bowl, Bogus Basin, Schweitzer, Silver Star, Whitewater.

So I may be visiting with @New2PDX and @David Chaus ....

 

[David Chaus]

Steven's Pass is also part of the Powder Alliance, where you get 3 days at 19 resorts as part of a home season pass. My home ski pass (FUSION PASS for Timberline and Mt Hood Skibowl) is also part of the Powder Alliance. I'm guessing with the buy-out that this is the last year Steven's will be on the Powder Alliance, so I'm planning on getting there.

In fact, I'm formulating a plan to do a NW road-trip of the Powder Alliance areas: Timberline, Mt Hood Skibowl, Steven's Pass, Bridger Bowl, Bogus Basin, Schweitzer, Silver Star, Whitewater.

So I may be visiting with @New2PDX and @David Chaus ....

I have been wanting to do such a Powder Alliance road trip, at least parts of it.

When you get to Stevens I’ll be happy to meet up, if my schedule allows.

 

[sjjohnston]

I'll go way out on a limb and predict this is the last year for the Cascadia pass. Good news for Seattle. Maybe bad news for the Idaho ski areas that thrive on road-trippers from Seattle?

I'm with you that the Cascadia pass will shortly be history.

Are there Idaho ski areas that thrive on road-trippers from Seattle? Sun Valley gets lots of Seattle people, but unless you're counting Dollar and Baldy as two areas, there's no plural, and I think they're mostly the plane-trip class rather than the road-trip hoi polloi. It's a long drive from Seattle to Sun Valley - not that much shorter than driving to Salt Lake City. People who are driving to out-of-state resorts are more likely to turn up at Whistler, I think.

I guess Grand Targhee is sort of in Idaho, but probably not packed with Seattle road trippers, as it might even be a longer drive than SLC.

Not sure what they're going to do with the existing Crystal season passes. What would make sense is to turn them into full Ikon passes. If they turn them into base passes, there'll be a certain amount of grumbling from people who actually paid more (in May) for less than the Ikon pass costs. If they leave them as just Crystal passes, lots of grumbling.

 

[New2]

I was thinking Tamarack, Brundage, Schweitzer, and Sun Valley all might suffer if folks from Seattle start heading to Epic/Ikon areas instead.

 

[LewyM]

IMHO, this will be good. Stevens desperately needed an influx of capital for lift replacement. Crystal has excellent lift infrastructure and grooming machinery (drivers, meh,... somedays good, somedays not so good), but there's no 'there' there. There's been plans for years for new lodging at the base area. Once that happens, Crystal will be well worth a M-F midweek ski week trip... think Taos north. The area already gets a good influx of powder chasers when the rest of the country isn't popping. All in all, it makes a ton of sense and seemed to be a 'when' rather than 'if'. I think the owner did quite well in the sale, so there you go. Yes, I'm guessing we'll lose the 10 and under ski free deal which is a bummer.... don't know if that'll happen this year or not, but it sure makes it more likely that I'll go back to teach there.

I agree with @markojp and @John O that this is a good thing for Crystal skiers. Unlimited Crystal on Ikon is a dream outcome from my perspective. I am also happy to have days at the summit back on my pass (we lost that last year and as a result last year was the first in as long as I can remember that I didn't ski a single day at Alpental).

As I said in another thread, it seemed likely that Crystal would eventually align in some way with IKON. It was the only outcome that made sense. Vail's acquisition of Stevens probably increased the urgency for Alterra and probably hastened this outcome. Ultimately, this about locking into the IKON universe better than half of Seattle metro's avid ski population. Good for the Kirschers pulling this deal off. I wonder if they will still be running the place for Alterra under the new umbrella.

But this isn't about bringing a significant volume of destination skiers to Crystal. Now or ever. The weather is way too variable to be a true destination, even if they improved and grew the base area moderately. But Taos north (with less lodging and less sunshine) is a great way to think about it - a very good analogy across multiple dimensions. So for those on the crazy fringe who already have an IKON pass, are willing to book last minute reservations, and don't really care about amenities and lodging, go for it! If you catch conditions right you won't be sorry.

Things get interesting now at Whistler. Does RK and Company double down on the Epic model of early economic lock-in, bet on the Stevens crowd's incentives to bring increased Seattle volume and effectively write off better than 50% of the large, natural secondary market (who fill beds during slow periods and midweek). Or does he try to compete with Alterra for a piece of travel spend and give Crystal skiers reasonable incentives to make a trip or two a season, reviving something like the OG Edge Card where it would make sense to spend some $ there even "out of network" (the current incarnation of Edge under Vail is a ripoff and a waste of time).

It is all interesting, but this seems like the best case scenario to me.

 

[markojp]

I was thinking Tamarack, Brundage, Schweitzer, and Sun Valley all might suffer if folks from Seattle start heading to Epic/Ikon areas instead.

As geographically isolated as the Seattle area ski bubble is nationally, the inland northwest is even more so. Sun Valley is interesting.. Most of the Seattle skiers I know who frequent there are property owners there and don't really travel anywhere else all too much, and if they did, picking up a couple of ikon or epic passes for themselves and the grandkids isn't a big deal. That said, I doubt that's a sustainable economic model given human life spans and all, sooooo.... The hill that seems germane to the ownership shake up might be Whitefish as well.

 

[LewyM]

As geographically isolated as the Seattle area ski bubble is nationally, the inland northwest is even more so. Sun Valley is interesting.. Most of the Seattle skiers I know who frequent there are property owners there and don't really travel anywhere else all too much, and if they did, picking up a couple of ikon or epic passes for themselves and the grandkids isn't a big deal. That said, I doubt that's a sustainable economic model given human life spans and all, sooooo.... The hill that seems germane to the ownership shake up might be Whitefish as well.

Agree with this in full. Schweitzer has its own local market, but that market probably isn't large enough to be compelling either IKON or Vail. I could see SV join IKON as a week in an attempt to pull Crystal/Snoqualmie skiers in that direction instead of other choices. The Sun Valley trip was a bigger deal when I was a kid. Today, SV has its diehards and fans, but I see way less of the folks I ski with planning trips to SV (unless they have a place, a tradition, etc. . ). Whistler took that spot in the ski consciousness of Seattle people over the last two decades.

Agree that Whitefish would be an interesting add for either Vail or IKON. They are fundamentally a destination and could sustain and thrive with more national traffic. Add more local flights from SEA, PDX, SFO and you have something interesting. I think that they are a better fit for IKON. IKON could bring more destination traffic, but they could operate locally in a unique manner. Not sure that the pass base would be interesting to Vail and I don't know how it would be additive economically to own it. I see Whitefish more like Taos, which makes perfect sense on IKON and none at all on Epic.

 

[KingGrump]

Agree with this in full. Schweitzer has its own local market, but that market probably isn't large enough to be compelling either IKON or Vail. I could see SV join IKON as a week in an attempt to pull Crystal/Snoqualmie skiers in that direction instead of other choices. The Sun Valley trip was a bigger deal when I was a kid. Today, SV has its diehards and fans, but I see way less of the folks I ski with planning trips to SV (unless they have a place, a tradition, etc. . ). Whistler took that spot in the ski consciousness of Seattle people over the last two decades.

SV makes for a good destination not only for Seattle skiers but for skiers from anywhere. We spent the 2014 season at the Bird and did a road trip to JH, SV and Mammoth. They were all good. With JH being the low point. SV is really good. One of the most overlooked resorts out there.

 

[David Chaus]

If I were looking for uncrowded slopes and minimal lift lines, Idaho is where the action is. Or the lack of action. For myself as a PNW skier, I look forward to trips to Schweitzer, regardless of multi-resort pass products, and could easily retire somewhere near Spokane or Couer d’ Alene.

I am leaning more and more to picking up an Ikon Base pass this season, it really depends on whether we (Shamora and I) commit to the Gathering at Big Sky. I’d like to go but we’ve got some other issues to deal with, including her starting a new job and not clear if she will be able to get the time off. We might have to make it a shorter trip that’s the whole week, and If we’re not going to spend 4-5 days skiing there it makes more sense to buy a couple of day tickets in advance that to get the Ikon Base Pass. That all said, having Crystal (which she prefers over Stevens) on the Ikon pass might make it worthwhile to get the Ikon Base passes even if we don’t utilize all the days at Big Sky.

Alterra could also benefit from picking up Mt Hood Meadows or Bachelor. Meadows to draw Portland skiers to other Alterra resorts, and Bachelor as another destination option with reliable snow and decent size.