Alterra CEO doesn't want Ikon to ruin resorts.

[Steve]

@Eleeski I agree 100% with your post. Profit is a result, not a reason. In my company recently we did an analysis of why we do what we do and the answer was "We believe in developing rewarding relationships."

How we do that is the next step to understand and the last is "what" we do.

The relationships between staff, vendors and clients create all kinds of things, including money.

 

[Decreed_It]

@Eleeski I appreciate that response. Would love to be having this discussion with all y'all over après pitchers and nachos.

I blew my point adding "And us too!" and wish to qualify. Yes I'm playing both sides of the field here, but stick with me.

MegaCorp is bad. WalMart. WalMart we might agree is driven primarily by profit motive. Contrast to say, Patagonia, the best example I can come up with on short notice that, while pretty big, has a very clear philanthropic/altruistic mission. And they're quite successful at this model. I buy a lot of their gear not just because it's fantastic, but also it makes me feel good to support them and their missions. Patagonia, I think we might all agree is anti-MegaCorp.

Discussion in this thread indicates a potential spectrum - Vail (Epic) is trending MegaCorp - or, at least, the market (us weird Human skier peoples) is reacting to Vail as if they're MegaCorp. Alterra is under suspicion but marketing as if they're anti-Mega. And Mountain Collective might be slotted in the Patagonia category?

I work for an enormous tech company, very arguably a MegaCorp - but - we have an altruistic feel good mission statement and I believe we mean it and do our best to live it. But you better believe - at the end of the day - if profits and revenue go down, via whatever weird human market forces that may drive it - we would and do react swiftly. Should the day come the company is no longer profitable, for an extended period - that dog don't hunt as they say down in these parts.

My argument is that values are critical, altruism is noble and companies that provide value in those realms are worthy of your 'voting dollar'. But remain unprofitable long enough, that company will die and should die. Hence, the almighty dollar rules at the end of the day. A great way to keep those flowing in, these days, is to have an altruistic mission that makes the world a better place. Weird human skier peoples, and a significant part of the market, will pay for that. That's profitable, and rightly so.

 

[Wasatchman]

You totally hit it @Decreed_It . The debate is fascinating. I am definitely in the camp that many large corporations are too powerful and at the end of the day driven purely by profit.

But you nailed it when you said you'd enjoy discussing this après over a beer and nachos with many of the people in this thread. While I have strong conviction in my beliefs, the debate is fascinating and I think most of us can at least be civil about the debate. I do enjoy a good debate. Even if I'm unlikely to change my mind due to personal perspective and experiences. I'm passionate about my beliefs, but I do try to listen to the other side. And I think most on this thread are the same way.

 

[OldJarhead]

It is interesting to read about the controversy between Epic and Ikon but it isn't just those two. There is also the Mountain Collective where Taos was smart enough to offer both the Moutain Collective and Ikon. Now there are 43 other ski area that has banded together and call themselves the 19/20 Pass Partners. There are at least 5 ski areas in my backyard that I have never gone to but with a $150 season pass to Cooper I can ski at each of those 5 areas free 3 times.

Times have changed.

 

[4aprice]

Ski Cooper has a great list of partners. Ikon and Epic are not the only game in town, I could be very happy with the Indy or Freedom pass at some point in the future. There are plenty of good options.

But It wasn't that long ago that all this was not possible I never dreamed of it getting to the point it is now with Epic and Ikon (admission,,we are Ikon pass holders) but we have been Camelback Pa. pass holders for well over a decade (still are) and I always wanted to see them partner up with 1 or 2 other ski resorts, say in a place like NY, Vermont or New Hampshire, to allow reasonable travel and get some variety. My feeling was that CBK's pass base would be a benefit to other mountains and that it would help drive travel especially for a young growing family like ours was at the time. Then just as we were becoming empty nesters Max Pass came along and we jumped on it when Solitude joined (Brighton was already on it) because between the 2 we could ski our entire annual week at my BIL's place in Cottonwood Heights in BCC. Ikon has been an extention (and expansion) of Max though our travel habits have pretty much remained the same.

Have to admit I don't know if its going to end up being good or bad for the sport but it sure has been good for us. I do hear people claiming that its going to hinder recruitment of new skiers into the sport. (particularly the high cost of day tickets) but I think some of that is perspective. I know as a skier of over 50 years, if someone asked me how to get into the sport I would not recommend they start hanging out at XYZ mega resort. I know some people start there while on vacation with others and most places I know have good cheap starter programs, but for someone really trying to get into the sport and take that next step with out being locked into a pass I would recommend some of the smaller areas which are still a decent value. I think of it being much the same as saying just cause I can play golf doesn't mean I should drop big bucks to play say Pebble Beach.

 

[amlemus]

THIS! And A-Basin has a parking issue more than anything else.

As part of that population explosion in Denver, I can certainly attest to this. A-Basin is working with very limited parking space, and the volume from passholders only exacerbated it. I'm happy that A-Basin was able to expand a bit and improve their mountain operations with Beavers during their Epic pass tenure, but their location will almost always be a limiter to volume they can reasonably accommodate.

They're taking a great step with offering bus service from the Denver metro area, in my opinion. I don't anticipate it affecting the parking issue much; however, its nice to see alternative methods of getting to the mountain put in place.

 

[raisingarizona]

@Eleeski I appreciate that response. Would love to be having this discussion with all y'all over après pitchers and nachos.

I blew my point adding "And us too!" and wish to qualify. Yes I'm playing both sides of the field here, but stick with me.

MegaCorp is bad. WalMart. WalMart we might agree is driven primarily by profit motive. Contrast to say, Patagonia, the best example I can come up with on short notice that, while pretty big, has a very clear philanthropic/altruistic mission. And they're quite successful at this model. I buy a lot of their gear not just because it's fantastic, but also it makes me feel good to support them and their missions. Patagonia, I think we might all agree is anti-MegaCorp.

Discussion in this thread indicates a potential spectrum - Vail (Epic) is trending MegaCorp - or, at least, the market (us weird Human skier peoples) is reacting to Vail as if they're MegaCorp. Alterra is under suspicion but marketing as if they're anti-Mega. And Mountain Collective might be slotted in the Patagonia category?

I work for an enormous tech company, very arguably a MegaCorp - but - we have an altruistic feel good mission statement and I believe we mean it and do our best to live it. But you better believe - at the end of the day - if profits and revenue go down, via whatever weird human market forces that may drive it - we would and do react swiftly. Should the day come the company is no longer profitable, for an extended period - that dog don't hunt as they say down in these parts.

My argument is that values are critical, altruism is noble and companies that provide value in those realms are worthy of your 'voting dollar'. But remain unprofitable long enough, that company will die and should die. Hence, the almighty dollar rules at the end of the day. A great way to keep those flowing in, these days, is to have an altruistic mission that makes the world a better place. Weird human skier peoples, and a significant part of the market, will pay for that. That's profitable, and rightly so.

It may be a surprise to a lot of people but the Walton family actually spends millions and millions every year on various conservation efforts.