All things ankles... :)

[Doby Man]

I think an important distinction with “ankle tipping” is that it is facilitated “inside” the boot and it is used for leveraging the ski’s edges through minute tipping adjustments more so than “gross” tipping input the ski receives from the tibia/fibula moved by angulation and inclination. Utilizing lateral ankle flexion for DIRT: initiation timing, degree and duration of tipping, rather than from the gross body movements of angulation and inclination is where i see the divide. Those gross body movements are merely responsible for anticipating what the ankle is going to do and to be there to support this action. This is where just a few degrees of ankle tipping (that cannot be seen externally) can replace upper body movements of up to six inches or more and really helps to “quiet” the upper body. The more we are able to “suppress” movement to the lower entities of the body, the more effortless control we are able to establish.

I think that lateral ankle flexion or inside ankle inversion or “ankle tipping” is not more often taught, coached, discussed or written about is because that with modern skis and boots, all a skier really needs to do to perform a reasonably competent carved turn is to press into the shin - get good dorsiflexion of the ankle - tilt the tibia over and viola! There are many, many expert skiers out there who do not facilitate ankle tipping “inside the boot” (one reason may be because many expert skiers simply do not carve groomers much where lateral ankle movement is more key). It may also be because these movements are the only somewhat “hidden” motor patterns we use and therefore difficult to see, to demo and “sell” to the student. However, it is my opinion that ankle tipping is the most significant and transferable skill from WC racers directly to Joe expert rec or pro skier looking for that next level of refinement for a number of reasons including more/better tipping control and lateral leverage of the ski itself, the ankle’s superior impulse ability for initiating quicker turns, more carving/less transitioning, ability to offer a more supple level of articulation and control at the most sensitive location between the body and ski and the ability to leverage directly against the boot in new ways to make new things happen.

For me, lateral ankle flexion or ankle tipping is how I express the independence between my feet. While my outside ankle remains stacked perpendicular to the ski or, neutral (neither everted or inverted) which is good for handling the primary load of the turn, my inside ankle lateral flexion does three things a little different from the outside ankle that allows my inside ski to ski in “dynamic unison” with my outside ski so I am on “clean” skis. (clean skis for me means equal direction, equal tipping and equal simultaneous bending which creates the benefits of a two ski unified platform). The three things I do differently with the inside ankle inversion is 1. A slight over tip, barely visible (leading w/inside tipping & allowing the inside ski to bend equally with the more heavily loaded outside ski), 2. Slight convergence to the inside ski (counter steering for getting upside down early in the turn with the pinky toe/outside arch) and 3. More pressure towards the front (navicular) at 10:30 to the left and 1:30 to the right (de-necessitating any need to use hamstrings for inside hold back/pullback). The combination of these three moves makes it feel like you are initiating the new turn with the front shovel of the pinky toe edge of the new inside ski which also prompts the upper body into the right position in turn phase one to give support to the efficacy of this ankle facilitation. It has helped me to imagine that I am tipping a footprint sized paddle directly under my foot with 360 degrees of global rotation. These three moves cannot be seen very well and only “influence” the inside ski to work with the outside ski. However, when the inside ski becomes incidentally unweighted, we see that influence with a freely converging inside ski with shovel down and tail up. With this inside ankle articulation, I choose how quick to tip, how high to tip, how long, how progressively, etc., etc. which pretty much sets the DIRT for the turn.

A huge benefit to in-the-boot ankle tipping is that the skier is able to create/maintain higher tipping angles when the feet are more directly under the body. Angulation and inclination can only create tipping angles when the feet are away from underneath the CoM and therefore, alone, would limit the amount of carving that can be facilitated throughout the entire turn. Inclination supports ski tipping angles for when the BoS is furthest from the CoM. Angulation supports ski tipping angles when the BoS is closer to the CoM. Ankle tipping creates ski tipping angles when the BoS is most directly under the CoM. A specific result of this is that ankle tipping shortens the transition and giving you more carving within the same distance thus spreading out the forces further within the same turn distance for a very smooth turn. Skiers who do not use their ankles and rely on only angulation and inclination leave a longer flat ski mark from weighted transitions in their ski tracks compared to ankle tipping that may leave a flat mark in the track that is even shorter than the length of the ski itself. Less transitioning = more carving and more time to manage the turn’s forces. A weighted edge disengagement, transition and re-engagement from a turn with no vertical motion in turn phase three maximizes this effect.

In regards to ankle dorsiflexion, I use both dorsiflexion AND plantar flexion in order to “carve” the ski while migrating fore/aft pressure from the shovel to the tail. This move seems to be a lost art with shaped skis that allow for a less dynamic centered fore/aft position but, not if you want your skis to come around with acceleration, penetration and sing to hit those fine notes … it don’t. We will get more dynamic edge penetration as this type of carving condenses the ski pressure to a smaller spot and then runs that spot from tip to tail compared to just pushing down on the arch or a “flat” foot which distributes a more even pressure throughout the ski and something I would want when skiing powder.

A good way to start playing with lateral ankle flexion or “ankle tipping” is an isolation drill to make your skis turn on a flat run without inclination or angulation and using only ankle tipping to turn the ski. When you get more comfortable doing this with some speed and blending it back in with some inclination and angulation try also then blending in the 3 micro patterns mentioned above and see what results you may or may not get. A lot of what may or may not happen here will depend on the existing contact relationship between your boot and ankle. I have a “ring” of ankle contact in my boot that I leverage against the base of the foot. The contact area for me is where the middle “heel retention” buckle area in a three buckle boot would cover and is the conceptual “steering wheel” for my skis. My more recent view of ski technique is now seen through a new dichotomy: A. Primary movements and B. Secondary movements. All motor patterns that happen under the shell are the primary movements and all the rest, from the knees up are secondary movements: hip/knee flexion/extension, angulation/inclination, rotation, pole plant, etc, and ones which will have already been instilled into any expert skier. All those intuitive movements are programmed behind the quick trigger action and control capability of this lateral ankle flexion.

Granted there are prerequisite skills including the ability to balance the entire turn on the outside ski if not, ideally, able to ski on one ski for both left and right turns. In my dev, I feel I had to learn these skills before I was able to start taking advantage of the ankle in this way. It will be kind of hard to perform the above mentioned
“micro-patterns” if you need to use the inside ski for balance or support. Knowing how to weight the inside ski consistently at a minimal level (10 to 30% depending on circumstances of the turn) without letting your weight fall to the inside is key. Savvy ankle tipping is a good example of why we need to work on fundamental skills before advancing to the smaller motor patterns higher in the skill pyramid that puts the icing on the cake, a well built cake.

Sometimes, when we wish to improve the benefit of a movement, we must first remove our dependence on it so that we are then allowed to reintroduce it at a much more controlled and measured rate of facilitation:

• To make turns with the aid of two skis, we must first learn to ski exclusively on one ski.
  
  
• To make turns with the aid of the upper body, we must first learn to turn while excluding the upper body.
  
  
• To make turns with the aid of vertical motion, we must first learn to turn by excluding vertical motion.
  
  
• To make turns with a great pole plant, we must first learn to turn without it.
  
  
• To make turns with a better blend of angulation and inclination, try making turns with only the ankle.
  

 

[Kneale Brownson]

When Sean introduced me to the foot movements in his video, he had us sit with sock-fitted feet on a tray and develop a feel for raising first the arch side of the foot and then the outside of the foot and then we did it weighted while standing in our socks. Finally we put on the boots and took it outside.

 

[Jamt]

I think an important distinction with “ankle tipping” is that it is facilitated “inside” the boot and it is used for leveraging the ski’s edges through minute tipping adjustments more so than “gross” tipping input the ski receives from the tibia/fibula moved by angulation and inclination. ...

Great post Doby. I fully agree with most of it. I know that a lot of other people on this site also believe in a skiing from the feet approach.

A small addition that I think is important is that the arch of the outside foot should not collapse, if it does you cannot balance as well.
Unfortunately this is a problem for many. If you compensate by posting the insole it can alleviate, but just as with over-pronation shoes, it does not cure the root cause.

 

[razie]

I know that a lot of other people on this site also believe in a skiing from the feet approach.

Hey Jamt - where you been...

Yes, skiing from the feet - well said. It maybe somewhat counter-intuitive, but the ankle does not flex laterally in a meaningful way, does not invert or evert. That's a whole foot movement.

"It’s a synovial hinge joint and the main movements that you get at this joint are dorsiflexion and plantar flexion. "​

 

[Jamt]

Hey Jamt - where you been...

Yes, skiing from the feet - well said. It maybe somewhat counter-intuitive, but the ankle does not flex laterally in a meaningful way, does not invert or evert. That's a whole foot movement.

"It’s a synovial hinge joint and the main movements that you get at this joint are dorsiflexion and plantar flexion. "​

Summer sports...

Yes, the ankle does not flex laterally, it is the subtalar joint and all the other small joints in the foot, but in a layman's perspective I think you could call this "lateral ankle flexion". Although I think it is important to understand that the subtalar joint is a "torque converter" if you want to understand what really happens.

 

[razie]

Summer sports...

Yes, the ankle does not flex laterally, it is the subtalar joint and all the other small joints in the foot, but in a layman's perspective I think you could call this "lateral ankle flexion". Although I think it is important to understand that the subtalar joint is a "torque converter" if you want to understand what really happens.

Totally.

The combined range of motion is slightly bigger (below the ankle is the top joint and the subtalar joint, the lower joint):

The "big" torque we put on the boot when "tipping inside the boot" is really with the inversion/eversion of the entire foot, involving all the small joints throughout the foot, especially at the big end of the metatarsals - noting that the calcaneus is not even connected to them:

Agree though - "rolling the ankles" seems to roll of the tongue easier... and even some specialists seem to include everything under the handle "ankle joint" like above, but it does not seem to send the same message to apply torque at the right place in the boot. I have had some that told to "roll their ankles" get no result, but once they take the boots off and are put to repeat inversion/eversion and see exactly what to use, get much better results.

This is also why a tight fitting boot is much more important than a stiff boot... and why race boots have a very thin liner... that's what makes them "more reactive" (and... well... more painful).



p.s. it is even more interesting to consider how this works in open chain mode vs closed chain

 

[Mendieta]

This is also why a tight fitting boot is much more important than a stiff boot... and why race boots have a very thin liner... that's what makes them "more reactive" (and... well... more painful).

That makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for that, @razie ; how about stiffness, what's the rule of thumb to climb up or down the stiffness scale, if you don't mind? For recreational skiing, I mean. Clearly, the more advanced the skier, the stiffer the boot they should use. Why is that, is it because they ski at higher speeds/pressures/Gs? Or because a softer boot is more forgiving to "bad direction" from the skier? Thanks much!

 

[razie]

That makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for that, @razie ; how about stiffness, what's the rule of thumb to climb up or down the stiffness scale, if you don't mind? For recreational skiing, I mean. Clearly, the more advanced the skier, the stiffer the boot they should use. Why is that, is it because they ski at higher speeds/pressures/Gs? Or because a softer boot is more forgiving to "bad direction" from the skier? Thanks much!

Good question - the boot stiffness does impact the use of the ankles.

The stiffness of the boot is more related to the range of motion of the skier and (re)balancing, i.e. being supported by the cuff. Beginners have a small range of movement fore/aft, are pretty static and tend to have boots that are not properly setup, so get bounced around by a stiff cuff, so most prescribe a soft boot for them. However, soft boots are like shoes... no point really.

I would not ski below something like a 100, as anything above an absolute beginner - that was my first modern boot even before I could ski well (at 140lbs / 5'7"). My youngest at 13 skied a 110 boot - even total beginners in 110 boots are feeling better, because the boot does support them somewhat.

That's not the entire story though. The length of the cuff is very important, the angle of the cuff, the way you put the boots on is important, the fore/aft setup of the boot is important and more... and of course, the skier's weight. The stiffness is just like 30% of the fore/aft equation... and I have 130 Heads that are stiffer than 150 Atomics... and I have 150 Dalbellos that rock it off the stiffnes scale and take 5 minutes to put them on (that's also all the morning warm-up one needs). So the numbers don't even mean that much.

Bottom line, get a stiffer boot but set it up properly fore/aft, for you and you'll have a lot of fun.

I'll get into it in more detail in the other thread - I think there was a recent boot stiffness thread.

cheers

 

[Mendieta]

and I have 130 Heads that are stiffer than 150 Atomics... and I have 150 Dalbellos that rock it off the stiffnes scale and take 5 minutes to put them on

Right, @Philpug went over that aspect in a lot of detail (and with a lot of color) in his number games series: specifically parts two and three I appreciate you info on the other aspects, and yes, @tch opened a dedicated thread on boot fit and range of motion, I'd love to hear more on that other thread!

 

[Doby Man]

Thanks, Jamt. Agreeing 100% with another’s personal perspective of ski technique could very well be considered an irrational manifestation of some kind. I am really enjoying yours, Razie’s and other’s contribution to a discussion about feet at the expert level. Soooo much of it is upper and mid body stuff for advancing intermediates. According to Razie’s “Functional Anatomy” diagram above, the subtalar joint is actually considered part of the “ankle joint” so it is not just a layman's perspective but also a perspective for whom made that diagram.The important thing is to capture the basic concept enough to bring it to the snow with you and try it out. If you have the requisite fundamentals to do so, it really isn’t a difficult pattern to find and utilize regardless of one’s minor contextual and semantic disparities. This subject is the very reason why many racers have gone as far as to punch out some space over the navicular so that the foot, more specifically, the ankle, can create a leverage (lateral for the most part) inside the boot to get that inside ski grabbing and carving like the powerhouse outside ski and especially for those that lead w/inside tipping.

Below are a couple diagrams that show exactly what I mean regarding using the “ankle” (I like to avoid too much anatomical and biomechanical specificity to which the below diagrams comply) to flex laterally or, inversion or supination of the “inside ankle only” and applying navicular pressure against the shell of the boot usually somewhere under buckle number two. When we invert out ankle, iot doesn’t just tipp directly over to the side. The diagrams below show the direction of pressure that would go to the ski from ankle inversion that can influence the ski in the following 3 ways/3 directions: 1. Forward. With more pressure over the front of the inside sole for early inside shovel pressure. 2. Over. A slight over tip for bending the under-weighted ski, leading the tipping & instilling/initiating DIRT and 3. Inside. A converging inside ski “climbing the wall” to get upside down” early in the turn. All three of which get that inside ski carving with a full technical contribution to the turn as a whole. We can see how this foot position below “keeps” the inside foot kept back from the start of the kinetic chain and where it belongs without the use of a major hamstring contraction required by “pull back”. Below left diagram is how turns are initiated by those who use this motor pattern, with the inside ankle leading the tipping (internally) and letting the outside foot follow but in neutral (neither everted or inverted/ supinated or pronated) but an outside ankle that is “stacked” and centered equally against the higher forces of the turn.

The diagrams below are exaggerated examples. These are small or “micro” motor patterns that are not about movement as much as it is about aggressively leveraging the inside ski that must bend with a much more weight loaded outside ski.

Over inversion of the ankle is often the cause of a sprained ankle but not while in a well fitted ski boot. Perhaps this may be why it feels so non-intuitive and, subsequently, a less pursued option. A good, well fitting ski boot makes the highly complex and compact mechanism of the ankle to be a very powerful and accurate carving tool. While a high degree of dorsiflexion should have already been in one’s tool box for some time, lateral ankle flexion does not require dorsiflexion to happen. For those of you who are committed to skiing with 100% weight on the outside, this movement is mute, will not transpire in a “meaningful way” and only works well for those who have the “touch” to manage some weight on the inside ski without any danger of negatively falling to the inside. This above ankle inversion pattern will not create the intended “leverage” if the skis edge isn’t locked in the carve to support the closed chain leverage that the navicular needs to move against the locked edge in order to push against the boot. Another beauty of this motor pattern is that, also needed to create this leverage, your CoM has to be in the right place in relationship to the BoS, without of which none of this would be happening with any “meaning” at all.

This ankle inversion motor pattern is part of the idea of how skill development pushes movements and control of the ski to lower portions of the body but also is a great kinetic chain initiative for very quick fully carved turns. The move also increases the mobility we need to use to snuff out unwanted vertical motion of the CoM and is replacing this huge body effort with a physically effortless and compact motor pattern.

 

[PTskier]

Ankle pronation or supination are structural problems corrected by orthotics or posted footbeds.
Ankle inversion or eversion are intentional movements to the outside or inside, respectively, by the ankle.

"Bottom line, get a stiffer boot but set it up properly fore/aft, for you and you'll have a lot of fun." YES! The stiffer boot has both something to lever against when you need to re-center and gives much quicker transfer of movements from the leg to the ski.

"the ankle does not flex laterally in a meaningful way, does not invert or evert." But...the effort to invert the inside ankle impels the body toward the inside of the turn which sets up the angles on the snow. Stand up. Right now. Lighten your right foot. Strongly invert your right foot. Your body will tilt to the right until you correct it...or fall. "Hold my beer and watch this."

 

[François Pugh]

Regarding the video: It's a great start, aimed at beginners, who need to learn to balance on skis while keeping their balance point above their feet, as if their feet constituted their entire base of support, and not explore the farther ranges until they have some degree of mastery at balancing while skiing.

My skis are my feet when skiing, and sometimes I want to pressure the tips or tails of them, sometimes even on modern skis.

Regarding flexing the boots. I have a very stiff pair of boots which are my favorites, and I weigh 160 lbs. I can flex my ankles in the boots just fine, when I'm skiing fast and turning hard. Beginners need softer flexing boots so they can learn to flex their ankles, because they are (typically) not skiing fast and are not turning hard. There may be the odd exceptional beginner adrenaline junkies who are skiing fast, but even they would learn better at slower speeds with softer boots. My first ski boots were made of leather and barely came up above the ankle, so I did learn about ankle flexion early on. I do enjoy the added support of the modern boots, but admit the more supportive modern boots may impede learning.

 

[Uke]

PT,

Sorry, but your exercise produces no tilt or movement of my upper body. Inverting the lightened foot/ankle results in some rotation of the femur in the hip socket but no noticeable change happens above that. I'll also add that trying to move the com to the inside of the turn is one of the causes of problems for many skiers, things like too much pressure on the inside ski and hip-dumping come to mind.

uke

 

[razie]

"the ankle does not flex laterally in a meaningful way, does not invert or evert." But...the effort to invert the inside ankle impels the body toward the inside of the turn which sets up the angles on the snow. Stand up. Right now. Lighten your right foot. Strongly invert your right foot. Your body will tilt to the right until you correct it...or fall. "Hold my beer and watch this."

Hey PT, my point was that the inversion and eversion, which are the actual movements involved in using the feet to tip the boots laterally are not mainly at the ankle, but a whole foot movement...

Maybe this explains it better: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~humananatomy/part_3/chapter_17.html

Quotes:

during inversion and eversion, which occur at intertarsal joints, the talus moves very little.

The chief movements of the foot distal to the ankle joint are inversion and eversion. In inversion, the sole of the foot is directed medially. In eversion, the sole is turned so that it faces laterally (see fig. 17-6). Inversion and eversion occur mainly at the subtalar and transverse tarsal joints.

Note that "distal to the ankle joint" means away from the ankle joint.

Again, if you look at this diagram, the talus is part of the ankle joint "proper", the calcaneus is sometimes considered part of it, but neither really moves the actual foot when inverting... they just allow a bigger range of motion. The meta-tarsals do move the foot and their joints are different. A focus on moving only the ankle would logically result mainly in the heel shifting slightly... but our brains and feet are wired so that the other parts move as well, you're right.

Maybe I'm a sucker for using the words precisely and I'm going to stop repeating myself, but my experience has been that when skiers understand the exact movements to do, rather than just "roll the ankles", they get better results. And this is why I insisted: If you look down when you invert the foot, you'll notice that most torque on the boot shell would be created between the top of big bone of the foot, on the big toe side and the bottom of the other side of the foot, i.e. the pinkie side... and that will rotate the front of the boot and, because of the stiff boot, it will tip the cuff and, with the added leverage, that will go up the chain to the tibia, knee, hip etc.

That's a good drill to present one way that inversion is useful, instead of taking weight off the outside ski , but it's possible that the reason your drill didn't work that well for Uke is because he's not in boots, so there's a lot less leverage and impact of that movement up the chain and perhaps you're only focused on the ankle movement instead of a strong inversion of the entire foot?

PT,

I'll also add that trying to move the com to the inside of the turn is one of the causes of problems for many skiers, things like too much pressure on the inside ski and hip-dumping come to mind.

uke

Uke - right you are. However, the COM does have to get inside the turn at some point and in some way, to establish "inclination", otherwise we can't put the skis on edge. It is important how that happens. Hip dumping in my mind is when the hip leads the overall movement, as opposed to the feet leading the overall movement - in which case the hip does not appear to be out of place.

 

[Uke]

Raz,

The com ends up on the inside of the arc because the feet move to the outside. How far to the outside they get determines how much inclination will occur. Anyway that's how I view it.

Don't see how having boots on would affect my outcome on PT's exercise.

uke

 

[razie]

Raz,

The com ends up on the inside of the arc because the feet move to the outside. How far to the outside they get determines how much inclination will occur. Anyway that's how I view it.

Don't see how having boots on would affect my outcome on PT's exercise.

uke

That's a good point of view. Focusing on hip movements is not!!! My bad

There's a big difference in my mind between a slow skiing on a green and a more dynamic skiing, when the skier flexes more to allow the divergence of the hips from the boots... or rather the boots from the hips like you put it.

... as long as you don't think of it as "pushing" the skis sideways. When the COM/hips are decoupled from the skis (i.e. bent legs) they can maintain a trajectory and we are free to tip the skis on edge and thus have the skis diverge laterally, i.e. cross under the hips, while the hips keep going mostly down the slope.

Totally.

On the PT drill, when you tip the boot on edge, the long boot cuff will move the tibia, since they're one. That will move the knee and by necessity, apply a small force on the hips. Whether you resist this force or roll with it, it's up to you.

it's easier to experiment sitting down, but in boots - since the knee is flexed a lot so free to move somewhat away from the hips.

 

[markojp]

More...

 

[Doby Man]

Inside ankle inversion and the leverage it produces is for turn initiation only and getting that inside ski bent early in the turn so it is not necessarily something for phase two or three. Like the knee or wrist, supination and pronation describe lateral direction of outward or inward roll or flexion of any joint. They do not describe a “condition” such as would “over/under pronation” or “over/under supination” to a podiatrist. Nor to I feel breaking the basic ankle “joint” into its four individual “sub” joints is a helpful complication for coaching or teaching. When. again. comparing the wrist, we can, again, break it down to more “individual” joints than even the ankle, but, alas, I don’t think the tennis coach is going there either. Also, while it is correct that inversion and eversion is a “movement” of the foot, it is produced by “flexion” of the ankle which is the “function” we are concerned with regarding the motor pattern at hand. In that light, the terms “pronation/supination” and “eversion/inversion” in regards to ankle flexion are relevant enough.

We can talk anatomy and biomechanics all day long but if we do not get to what this does to the ski and its interaction with the snow surface, we get nowhere. In that light, the subject is brought along in regarding the overall body position this motor pattern requires and therefore, initiates: your CoM forward and inside of the BoS and where it has to be for this inside ankle flexion born leverage to have efficacy. If we are talking about expert skiing, any concern of falling to the inside should not be an issue. Our CoM HAS to go to the inside and we want to be in control of that. To start the turn early, we need to have early and somewhat anticipatory horizontal separation between the CoM and the BoS which is more easily facilitated during transition and resulting in your highest edge angle by the end of turn phase one allowing for the completion of turn shaping by phase two and a well targeted edge release into transition at phase three. This move below is where early (upside down) hi C carving starts. We are speaking in the realm of an ability to place a measured amount of pressure on the inside ski without “going over” or “falling” too far to the inside, something that more typically happens to intermediates in their less than better moments. Regardless, at least my experience of what this motor pattern is actually for is in terms of what it does to the ski and its interaction with the snow:


Optimal early initiative ankle flexion:

(right foot is inside foot)

Inversion or supination or coronal/lateral flexion (whatever we wish to call it) of inside ankle advantages and benefits:

• Parallel shins
• Equal tipping (slightly more on the inside at the start of turn only)
• Inside edge contribution
• Converging (slightly counter steered) inside ski
• Clean skis - matched - working together as one platform
• Under foot pressure further to front of inside sole (little toe side of ball of foot) = early inside shovel carving
• Well stacked, anticipatory ankle - well stacked anticipatory body position

Possible (visually detectable) supinated/inverted inside ankle examples:

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Suboptimal “collapsed” inside ankle:

(right foot is inside foot)

Eversion or pronation of the inside ankle supports:

• A framing
• Unequal tipping
• No inside edge contribution
• Diverging inside ski
• Skis not “riding clean” - mismatched - requiring management of two separate platforms
• Under foot pressure further back over inside sole = less shovel initiation
• Collapsing ankle - collapsing body position

It doesn’t matter how well your body is stacked if your foundation: the inside ankle, is collapsed (pronated/everted) towards the outside of the turn and almost always indicated by divergent and unequally tipped skis and A framed shins.


Possible (visually detectable) pronated/everted inside ankle examples:

* While a racer may often be “forced” to accrue similar A frame related positions due to a litany of randomly chaotic happenstance race course circumstances, it is typically not an intended result. This is also a “full leg” (incorporating the ankle, knee and hip) “collapse” to the inside for which the outside leg lower position forces the inside leg to “get out of the way” in a highly tipped outside ski during high speed, heavier G force in GS courses. I think we are seeing less and less of this inside leg collapse also generally referred to as an A frame. I also feel that we will always see it here and there to some degree simply based on the brutal volatility of situational mechanics required by racing.


Why eversion promotes inside ski divergence (bad) and inversion promotes inside ski convergence (good):

I believe a narrow-er-ing stance provides better mobility for this ankle flexion “leverage” to work and requiring a better lateral balance. Some resistance to trying this movement is that we feel that our ankles are too delicate as we have never used them with this kind of force ever before. In this case, however, it is the support of the ski boot that should negate this intuitive reasoning. Yet, below is an exercise if you wish to strengthen this movement off the slope. You can also train this movement and strengthen all those small muscles in skates by finding the correct movement from the ankles alone that will generate forward motion. Learn the inline “double push” stride to gain prowess over this movement in the off season. Develop the pattern and transfer it to your boots and skis. A good on-snow drill is the one leg rollerblade turn.

A well stacked body on a collapsed ankle is not a fully stacked body. Just as helpful, having two skis carving and logistically/technically “sharing” responsibilities, is like having four wheel drive compared to two. By doing so, we are increasing our body’s tactile relationship with the snow surface. Basically, to me, this move constitutes a technical “over” engagement of the inside ski so it can match the power driven bend of the outside ski. The result? Two skis carving in pure harmony. When we have two skis that are “kinetically tuned” to each other, we ride a more powerful single platform “deck” down the mountain. I believe a narrow-er-ing stance provides better mobility for this ankle flexion “leverage” to work. To get rid of that “blocking” disruptive vertical motion between turns and keep our CoM riding “flat” we must exploit every opportunity for lateral flexion throughout the entire kinetic path. In this light, lateral ankle flexion is not anything to ignore if we wish to move forward in our development at the expert levels.

When we look at WC technique and seek to transfer some of those “advantages and benefits” to our technical free skiing, we are not watering them down to a lower standard. No, we are jacking them up and supercharging them with the freedom of movement we have outside the race course. We can access these super efficient, highly sophisticated and powerful movements that were developed out of the blood, sweat, tears and talent of generations of alpine world cup warriors and give them the rhythm, timing, speed and level of aggression that “we” choose in a lower risk, lower G and a more controlled environment. Furthermore we are also choosing our terrain, slope angle, radius and corredor. We are creating flow with our line choice that corresponds to the undulations of the slope and the freedom of our purpose. When we copy those “military grade” motor patterns and acclimatize them to a freeskiing format, we find that we are able to deliver the things that we want to see in our skiing at both more strikingly dynamic and consistent levels than from the original designers themselves. We come to find that the higher we get, the further we can see a road ahead that we did not know continued on.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Cool stuff Doby Man. If we are skiing on our right ski with left ski in the air how to we turn left without using undesirable pronatiion? In this situation my right turn is pretty smooth and i can feel the weight on the outside of my right foot. The turn left sort of just happens with a foot twist/weigh transfer (bad explanation), however it sometimes results in more of a skid turn.

 

[Doby Man]

Thanks for asking. Not sure exactly what you are asking but, it is my experience and observation that the outside (weighted) foot remains stacked or “neutral”, not either everted/inverted, pronated/supinated or laterally flexed at all so it can better handle all the forces of the turn. So, the outside ankle tips “with” the boot and the inside ankle tips “inside” or “against” the boot to create leverage for the inside ski to bend without all the weight that goes to the outside foot. An important context w/inside ankle flexion is a slightly weighted inside foot “on the ground”. An important caveat is that this motor pattern is best learned only after an approximate psia level 8 fundamentals have been achieved. Ideally we want both ankles stacked or neutral the whole way through the turn, Flexing that inside ankle away from neutral towards the inside of the turn in phase one results in a neutrally stacked inside ankle in the belly of the turn and exit just like the outside ski which is what we want.

Writing about ski technique, especially online, is a perilous affair burdened with multiple contexts where a slight interpretive shift in one in one translates to a shift in many of the others in a manner that simply cannot be traced and addressed. Add in word choice/semantics, writing style, intent, other interpretive variances and the inevitable ego, we often end up in a dead ended cluster phuq. While my writing style may be seen as complex and simply a bunch of mumbo jumbo to the casual observer, I avoid using overly detailed and complex anatomical, biomechanical and physics based concepts that do not translate well online or on the hill such as referring to the “ankle” rather than the four sub-joints that make up the “ankle”. On the side of the hill, I speak to the individual through their individualized understanding and particular set of issues which reduces the number of words needed dramatically.

That said, gaining a better understanding of the basic terms and concepts of alpine ski technique even for a committed beginner can be a big help. It is sort of like how when someone becomes sick with a serious disease, they become experts themselves on the subject matter so they can better communicate effectively with medical staff and make informed, independent decisions on care. I also tend to think of faulty motor patterns as a cancer in the way that they metastasize to other motor patterns in negative ways and is often something that can not simply be “cut out” but rather need to be “crowded out” with new positive movements (new healthy cells). So, when we become sick with the ski technique bug, one of the initial things to do would be to gain a basic understanding of its industrial terminology and concepts. Thanks to the internet, it is now all at the tip of your fingers. However, so are the videos I just posted on the ski tip video thread so, buyer beware!