All Mountain Skis That Are Great In Moguls

[mister moose]

The advice to "move to ski town xyz" is appallingly unhelpful. If it were feasible and a priority for someone, they'd do it (as some do). Y'all should accept that for most other people, it's not, and thus tailor your advice with these constraints in mind.

Yes, not everyone chooses to move to a ski town. We both know that. However, there is a continuum that exists that ranges from one week-end per season to every day of the season. With the OP skiing 8-10 days per season there is just so much skill he is going to gain if he is a mere mortal like most of us. For him to get appreciably better when he reaches that point, he needs more days on snow. He may go that route, or he may not due to other priorities, and what time he can carve out. I'm not judging his choice. I'm just shining a light on the limitations of achieving any mastery of moguls with a 10 day season investment.

I'll also point out that 3 friends of mine used to ski every 2 weeks out of Virginia. They would carpool up, share driving, and drive all night Wednesday on an 8 hour drive to VT. Then ski Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday morning. Then 8 hours back home.

If you can do 80 on the western interstates of Texas, Taos is about 8 hours away. Just Sayin.

 

[markojp]

Since we're well off the rails, we often do what we do because we're helping kids with their dreams which may, if we're fortunate, jibe with our own hobbies and interests. Sometimes they just don't. At some point in life we work for, prioritize, and support our children's dreams even if it means less time for our own. It's easy to understand that someone who can only ski 10 days a season still wants to master their craft to the best of their ability with the time available to them. I'm also pretty sure that the OP understands that he's not likely to improve to the absolute best of his potential within his time, location, and schedule limitations.


5'11", 165, needs an easily skiable bump ski.... Nordica Navigator 80 or 85.... maybe a 90.

 

[KingGrump]

If you can do 80 on the western interstates of Texas, Taos is about 8 hours away. Just Sayin.

Taos is as good as they come when it comes to bump skiing.
You will learn to ski bumps there, or die trying.

Full disclosure: Some do die.

 

[SSSdave]

KG that sequence in FoM is my favorite clip too.

To become smoother in my own experience simply requires more skiing days so legs/lower back become stronger at maybe the type of quick turn rotation with snow pressure bump turns require. In other words with more days, a good bump skier can punish piston-like with little leg separation a wide range of bump shapes and snow condition types that greet them and make it look like all their other turns as their lower body automatically adjusts. Sometimes when I am moving down a long field of moguls my mind wanders daydreaming and I have little clue what is going on below my waist that tends to scare me because if a single turn goes awkward, I can be at a loss to get back into a rhythm.

jack97 >>>"If you want to ski direct, you need to ingrain into muscle memory making short turns on skis with very little side cut. The more you work on this the sooner it becomes habitual. The techniques to do this was "mainstream" back when skis had less shape but now only taught in freestyle teams."

Would expect your best selection of rental bump skis might be at Mary Jane Winter Park. A local on the board ought pipe in. Am little familiar with skiing different ski models in this era. What I do see on slopes are other good bump skiers that are now on wider skis with 80s width that are better in all mountain terrain thus more a one quiver ski. But would expect narrow width recreational bump skis not meant for speed are still going to be the better tool in mogul terrain. My Twisters are 65mm at the boot. See jack97's post.

In any case will note there are bumps, and then there are other bumps, and then there are really big and ugly and firm bumps. And there are also a wide range of skiers with strong bump skiers not the only ones that are going to offer posts. On web threads about mogul skis, one always sees a wide range of ski recommendations often questionable, that posters seem to think ski in bumps well that makes trying to make sense out of it difficult.

 

[HDSkiing]

If you can do 80 on the western interstates of Texas, Taos is about 8 hours away. Just Sayin.

Taos is as good as they come when it comes to bump skiing.
You will learn to ski bumps there, or die trying.

Full disclosure: Some do die.

You can do 85 and http://skisantafe.com is 2 hours closer, maybe 5 hours from Amarillo. We have lots of West Tx folks (and Okla) coming up every weekend.

While there’s no beating Taos we have similar terrain, just less of it. But some of the most accessible steep tree skiing anywhere and plenty of steep bump runs.

On the ski side, I dunno I ski bumps on my Head iRally’s, not a ski normally thought of as a mogul basher. But they are so quick edge to edge you can carve a great arc down the back of one mogul and be turning before you come over the top of the next, and few skis like to carve and turn like it in MHO.

For softer snow and on powder days I ski on K2 Pinnacle 95’s a great playful ski. Like it so much I’m thinking bout upgrading to the 2018 105 version as my 15/16 model is a little soft for me.

I grew up skiing bumps in the era of the Olin Mark IV and Hexcel Hexcelerator, seems few maunufacurers these days offer a pure bump ski, but then again beside @Philpug and a few others who can keep track?

 

[SSSdave]

Now that this thread has gotten the attention of bump skiers, here is a thread I created last season about the Little Dipper bump slope at Heavenly. Fun video too showing the vibe:

https://www.pugski.com/threads/little-dipper-bumps-at-heavenly.8631/

 

[Slim]

Are there all/big mountain skis 100+ waist that are good in the bumps? Recos?

Well, my K2 Marksman are 105mm, so they meet the “>100mm waist part, but they are freestyle, not all-Mountain and certainly not ‘big mountain” skis.

They are very good in slow speed bumps: long tip and tail rocker makes them about the rasierst pivoting skis out there. Also, combined with a hefty tip and tail taper, it keeps the tips and tails front catching, hoking and augering into the bump if you are off line a bit. The solid wood core gives a nice, predictable, even flex.

Of course, a narrower ski would be even quicker edge to edge.

 

[Slim]

@mister moose : I disagree with much you have said:
First the point about money spent. The OP is only 31 years old. Many of those rentals were when he was a kid. Rentals make sense.
2: he didn’t say he had never had any other lessons, just that he had only 1 bumplesson. Since he started as a 3 year old, he probably had lot’s of lessons as a kid.
3: Who says it’s a choice between spending money on buying skis OR getting a lesson? It seems entirely reasonable to BOTH buy skis AND take lessons. If there is a choice to be made, a more logical one is between more lessons or more days on snow.
4: Why are you telling him take lessons, move to Colorado, stop writing on Internet forums etc.? You are not his parent. He is a guy who wants to ski. He wants to ski bumps and wants to know which skis he should buy. That's a clear question. Answer that question if you feel like it. If you don’t want to talk about it then that’s fine too, nobody forcing you.

 

[Slim]

@CS2-6 ,

Blistergear’s buyer’s guide has a ranking of. “Best in bumps” for many of their categories. The new one isn’t out yet, but the old one might be worth your money if you are looking at close-out skis.

 

[markojp]

@mister moose : I disagree with much you have said:
First the point about money spent. The OP is only 31 years old. Many of those rentals were when he was a kid. Rentals make sense.
2: he didn’t say he had never had any other lessons, just that he had only 1 bumplesson. Since he started as a 3 year old, he probably had lot’s of lessons as a kid.
3: Who says it’s a choice between spending money on buying skis OR getting a lesson? It seems entirely reasonable to BOTH buy skis AND take lessons. If there is a choice to be made, a more logical one is between more lessons or more days on snow.
4: Why are you telling him take lessons, move to Colorado, stop writing on Internet forums etc.? You are not his parent. He is a guy who wants to ski. He wants to ski bumps and wants to know which skis he should buy. That's a clear question. Answer that question if you feel like it. If you don’t want to talk about it then that’s fine too, nobody forcing you.

You have to consider the source.

 

[mister moose]

@mister moose : I disagree with much you have said:
First the point about money spent. The OP is only 31 years old. Many of those rentals were when he was a kid. Rentals make sense.

I said since High School. The total spent since he stopped growing is worth mentioning for perspective.

2: he didn’t say he had never had any other lessons, just that he had only 1 bumplesson. Since he started as a 3 year old, he probably had lot’s of lessons as a kid.

I was encouraging more coaching, I stand by that.

3: Who says it’s a choice between spending money on buying skis OR getting a lesson? It seems entirely reasonable to BOTH buy skis AND take lessons. If there is a choice to be made, a more logical one is between more lessons or more days on snow.

Money seemed to be part of the equation in his answers. Time is also limited, so he seems to want to pack as much into his 10 days as possible. Choices need to be made. Obviously more of everything is better.

4: Why are you telling him take lessons, move to Colorado, stop writing on Internet forums etc.? You are not his parent. He is a guy who wants to ski. He wants to ski bumps and wants to know which skis he should buy. That's a clear question. Answer that question if you feel like it. If you don’t want to talk about it then that’s fine too, nobody forcing you.

The "Move to Colorado" was a question, and it addressed the increased time on skis necessary to improve more season over season. I didn't go into great detail as I thought it was somewhat evident. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I find frequent misunderstandings happen on forums, and to head every one of those off would require a novel to be written on each post. I tend to err on the side of fewer words. And I NEVER told him to stop writing on internet forums.

I think I've spent a lot of time and offered a lot of constructive information in trying to guide his choices in skiing next season. I edited video and posted excerpted photos to illuminate aspects of his skiing he didn't seem to realize. I think that was positive feedback. I advised him to focus less on finding the perfect ski, as his technique will likely change and other things will matter more. I stand by that advice as well. What I didn't do was sugar coat it.

I try to stay in the less words is more camp, and if you disagree, that's fine.

*Edit:
I just remembered that half my conversation with the OP is over on AlpineZone and the full context of what I have said here is not apparent without that. Apologies for not mentioning that. Those posts are here
https://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/140795-All-Mountain-Skis-That-Are-Great-In-Moguls
and if you register on the site you can see the excerpted photos.

 

[Wade]

I had a ski instructor once tell me that beyond the initial rapid improvement someone will see when they’re relatively new to the sport, in his experience, the break point to see real incremental improvement from year to year is around 20 days on snow each season.

With fewer days than that, while you might see improvement within the current season, you likely won’t build incrementally from that base in the next season. Rather the next season will likely be building back to that same point, and you’ll finish the next season with approximately the same skill level as you did the last.

The instructor contendended that beyond 20 days, if you’re doing the work, you have a good chance of improving your skills each year.

I’ve found this to be true for me. I’m committed to being a better skier, and since that conversation, I’ve found a way to get 25 to 35 days in every year. I live in the NYC burbs, I have two young kids, and a demanding job, so those days don’t always come easy. While I’m lucky enough to get out west 2 or 3 times a year, a good number of those 25 to 35 days aren’t on the types of mountains I’d ideally like to be skiing. I get value and enjoyment out of every day on snow though, and my skiing has improved significantly in the 5 years or so I’ve pushed my days skied count over 25 per year.

I don’t say this to be discouraging to the OP. I say it to help him set realistic expectations. Maybe there are some improvements he can make through better skis and boots, and maybe focusing on any glaring technical deficiencies can help, but to get significantly better, he’s likely going to need to find a way to get more than 6 to 10 days a year on snow.

 

[CS2-6]

date your skis and you marry your boots

Good. In that case, I’m doing everything right. I’m spending way too much time thinking about different skis, always hunting the next new experience, and cruising forums of questionable repute. Meanwhile, my boots and I may not be as good of a fit for each other as we seemed years ago, often seem to be going in different directions, and are always in for a bumpy ride whenever we spend time together.

Taos

I really need to get back to Taos. I haven’t been to that mountain since I was 12. I need to fix that.

http://skisantafe.com

And I’ve never been to Santa Fe, only seen the sign from the highway. But I’m planning on going now; thanks.

thread I created last season about the Little Dipper

Wow, that’s a hell of a post there, Dave. The skiers at 0:57, 1:20, and 1:38 all have a skill and style I particularly envy.

20 days…better skis and boots…glaring technical deficiencies

That makes a lot of sense to me. It “feels” like I get a little bit better each year, but I’m sure you’re right, that’s just me knocking the rust off and getting back to where I was the previous season.

So, I’ll spring for another boot fitting (that addresses delta), pick up a pair of skis on closeout, and maximize my on-snow time with an extra weekend or two and as many lessons as I can get my hands on.

10 day season investment

And that’s how I ultimately interpreted Mister Moose’s comments on commitment; not as disparagement on my interest in getting better, but on the realities of what I can do with the time I can afford to dedicate to it.

I haven’t been around long at all, but I’ve seen that Mister Moose can sometimes be brusque to the point of seeming dismissive, instigative, and frustrated. But I’ve learned that “seem” is the important word, and this is probably due to his tendency to error on the side of fewer words, whereas I tend to err on the side of too many (see original post). What is fact though, is how much technical advice and guidance he’s provided me, for no other reason than to help out a fellow skier trying to get better (hell, anyone who offers to knowingly ski with a Texan and provide one-on-one feedback for the going rate of a beer, is gold in my book).

But, thanks to @wutangclan, @markojp, and @Slim for the support. Yall have a clear understanding of the reality of the situation vs. what we all wish it could be. This is a great community.

 

[CS2-6]

I've been deal hunting and have come across a set of 2018 Volkl Transfer 85s for dirt cheap (<$200 new). They got pretty poor reviews and might be a little too soft for me overall, but does anyone have any direct experience with them?

 

[GregK]

I've been deal hunting and have come across a set of 2018 Volkl Transfer 85s for dirt cheap (<$200 new). They got pretty poor reviews and might be a little too soft for me overall, but does anyone have any direct experience with them?

They are buttery/noodles so softer than the Kink/Transfer 89. Head Caddy 181cm still at that same $200 US mark and Head Framewall in the 176cm with Attack2 Bindings still at $360 which are far better options along with all the other skis mentioned by others in this thread. Framewall's a touch stiffer(but probably similar in the shorter size) and the Framewalls can take lots of tip bashing abuse which will happen in moguls and still look decent.

 

[CS2-6]

They are buttery/noodles so softer than the Kink/Transfer 89.

Gotcha. That's certainly not what I want; thanks for the heads up.

Head Caddy 181cm

I'm definitely still on the hunt for those Caddys, but I'm leery of going any longer than 177cm. I know, "effective edge" and "skis short" and all that, but I'm afraid 181 is just a little too long for me.

 

[GregK]

RUN and get the Nordica Navigator 80 at REI.com for $199.99 a pair on last years model! Have 170cm and 179cm left.

 

[CS2-6]

I thought I'd go ahead and resurrect this thread with a final post, just to let any unfortunate soul who gives a crap know how the story ended.

I did a ton of research, got a ton of great information from a ton of knowledgeable and wise folks, did a ton of serious thinking, and ignored every blessed bit of it.

Back in November I came across a pair of lightly used (3-5 days at most) 168cm Dynastar Twisters with brand new Look Pivot 12s for a great deal (at Forerunner in Killington, VT). So I pulled the trigger.

This is was definitely a gamble that could've left me both frustrated and hundreds of dollars poorer. But I skied on them for the first time at Wolf Creek last January and I absolutely couldn't be happier. The folks who said that nothing skis the moguls like a mogul ski were definitely right. Once I got the feeling of really pressuring the front half of the ski at turn initiation, finding the zipperline has never felt more smooth and natural. Skiing the moguls has never felt better, and I can't imagine going back to all-mountain skis in the bumps after this. I mean, like the Frog Suit in Super Mario Bros. 3 type of upgrade. I love them completely.

A 66mm underfoot ski for someone who's primary ski location is the San Juans... and Wolf Creek in particular, the resort that boasts "The Most Snow in Colorado". How does Ullr and his ilk chastise such a brazen affront? I got two days on my brand new (to me) babies before we were bludgeoned with 39" of powder in 24 hours. So much snow that one of the lifts can't even turn until the late afternoon. So I was reduced to renting again (Volkl 90Eights, not a bad ski at all). But I was able to unsheathe the Twisters again in some nice soft bumps after a couple days when all that cursed powder got cleared away.

But then I always knew moguls specific boards wouldn't've ever really worked as a daily driver in Western Colorado. At the end of my trip in early January, a dude on TGR made good on an offer of unparalleled generosity he made back in August: he gave me a pair of 2011 Scott Missions for exactly $0 (although I did end up giving him a bunch of beer in thanks). A little research taught me this ski (which is actually made by Fischer) is incredibly great for crud and light powder. Furthermore, the set I got were in such good condition, when I took them in to have them tuned, the tech told me they didn't even really need it unless I was expecting to be on boilerplate anytime soon. I picked up a new pair of Look SPX12s on eBay for <$100, just in time for my last trip to Purgatory in late February. I had them mounted (Alpine Sports, Santa Fe, NM) while I got some turns in at Ski Santa Fe. On that same trip, I pulled a set of ski poles from the lost and found and had them cut them down to the appropriate size of 42" (Thanks again, you know who you are). So how does a completely free ski that I've never been on treat me? I loved it. Of all the skis I've ever been on, it's my second favorite (you know the first). Nice flotation, busts through crud, easy turn initiation, and flexible enough in the tips that I can still ski the bumps. Which was good, because The Powder Gods had not yet satiated their hunger for punishment, or maybe I just have difficulty receiving discipline, because after a day on my Twisters, we had to suffer through 36" of fresh at Purg. Dry your eyes, True Believers, I was fortunate enough to get back on the Dynastars before I had to return to the slope-less wastes of Texas.

With a ton of research, a little dedicated searching, and the humbling generosity of a couple exemplary folks in the skiing community, I've ended up with a perfect (for me) and complementary quiver based on two skis that I'd never demoed or even seen. A big reason for that success is yall. Thank all yall for enduring my endless gaper questions and indulging my aggravating "analysis". This is a great place. I'm lucky to be here.

 

[Tony S]

^^^

Nicely written. Fun read.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I read it too! So happy to hear things worked out this way.