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wallyk

Would rather be ski'n
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The MinnieApple
The bump skiing bit starts at 6:59.


Thank you King Grump for posting such an awesome vid!!!!!! I needed this my man......So much right with this vid and way to defer to Stump....

IMHO Plake preaches it here!!!! ......I'm not an exclusive mogul skier, I think that I can hold my own on most mogul fields, but I firmly believe that Plake says it best at 7:03....."mogul skiing is real....you cant buy it [reference to buying carver skies] you can't fake it...it's real.....if you want to see the best skiers on the mountain go look at who's skiing the bumps....a lot of truth to that statement!!!!
 

BC.

NEPA ShopRat/Skier
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Thank you King Grump for posting such an awesome vid!!!!!! I needed this my man......So much right with this vid and way to defer to Stump....

IMHO Plake preaches it here!!!! ......I'm not an exclusive mogul skier, I think that I can hold my own on most mogul fields, but I firmly believe that Plake says it best at 7:03....."mogul skiing is real....you cant buy it [reference to buying carver skies] you can't fake it...it's real.....if you want to see the best skiers on the mountain go look at who's skiing the bumps....a lot of truth to that statement!!!!

"It's real". This is one of the reasons why when at Kton we like to begin/end our day at Bear......to lap OL a couple times in the am to wake up and a couple times in the pm to end our day and earn our Fiddleheads at Apre'. People watching on Bear quad is a plus too....There are some very good bumpers on OL during the day. Fun to watch.
 
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Thread Starter
TS
CS2-6

CS2-6

>50% Chicken Fried Steak w/w
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112
The bump skiing bit starts at 6:59.

Oh man, that was rad; thanks a ton for that. I think I watched that video three times on repeat. Winter is a long ways away....

...but that's good, because it looks like I'm back on the hunt for a pair of skis.

Even the wrong skis is probably better than different every time.

I think buying one pair of skis should have a different hurdle than buying a second pair of mogul specific skis. I suspect many of the people advising lessons instead of skis may have misunderstood the question you are asking along that specific dimension. If you want a ski that should work well for most of your days in Southern Colorado and would work well in moguls, the list you had on the first page seemed pretty reasonable to me.

Thanks, yall. Yeah, I see now how my original post could've been read that way, and that's definitely my fault. I think you're right, for a one-ski-quiver, a subtle tip and tail rocker in combination with traditional camber underfoot, is probably the best idea. Thanks for the ski suggestions too.

I'll aim to get an all-mountain ski now and keep an eye out for dirt cheap used mogul skis in the future, since I will never ever need a brand new set.

CS2-6, four questions....

1. You do need to buy some skis if you're serious. Where do you ski bumps? What state?

Thanks for taking the time, Liquid:

I ski nearly exclusively in the San Juans of southwestern Colorado. For the purpose of picking out skis, I'm only considering the environment of those 3 or 4 resorts.

2. How did you do with your instructor's Bumps for Boomers type bump skiing? Those turns do not require upper-body-lower-body separation. The program teaches people so ski square (facing the way the skis point), and to take a slow, drifting, meandering line down the bump field. Is that what you did in your lesson? How did you like it? Are you satisfied with that type of line through the bumps?

The BumpsForBoomers techniques constituted about half the lesson, with the other half being drills that I instantly recognized from DiPiro's book. My instructor commented that I came into the lesson already sking moguls with the "black line" approach; even thought I thought the strict "black line" approach was too round and carve-heavy. I thought the "blue line" was unnatural and of little utility; and that it could only really be employed in small, wide bumps where a special approach really isn't needed anyway. The "green line" is ok, but very conservative, and I mostly use that technique when I come up on some nasty troughs or a big rock; more survival skiing or drastic speed reduction. The aspect I liked the least of the BumpsForBoomers skiing was the lack up upper and lower body separation, and how it felt like I was wondering through the mogul field rather than skiing it.

4. Dan DiPiro's approach to skiing bumps is to take the direct line straight down the fall line. How did you respond to that approach? Is this what you aspire to do?

When I read DiPiro's book a few years ago, it was the first time mogul skiing made sense to me. His preaching of a steered/pivoted/skidded/smeared turn, constant snow contact, extension and absorption, and dedication to the fall-line made me an instant convert; and is the type of mogul skiing I'd like to get closer to.

3. Are you renting boots too?

Nope, I've got my own boots (thank God), and custom footbeds for that matter (I've got high arches and need that support). The boots are a few years old, and relatively soft (90), but I like them, they fit well enough, and they're comfortable.
 
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LiquidFeet

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@CS2-6, here's my summary of your information.

--You ski in southwestern Colorado. You stay on bumps all day.
--You've purchased 90-flex boots that fit and you have custom footbeds in them.
--You are currently renting skis and are looking to buy your first ski, a one-ski quiver.
--At this point you're looking for a ski with subtle tip and tail rocker and traditional camber.
--You want to ski the Dan DiPiro way. You've read the book and taken one lesson.
--You were not impressed with the Bumps-for-Boomers meandering line approach introduced in that lesson you took.
--Skiing a direct line and nailing the zipper line is your goal.
--You're on a ski forum in August and re-watching bump videos.

Add to this list:

--your height and weight and age
--the number of days you ski each season
--how long you've been skiing

-------and then folks may be able to narrow their suggestions down.
 
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jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
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@CS2-6 -- I've only demo'd them for a few runs, but I think Liberty Origin 90 should be on your list. A capable all mountain ski that has a lot of energy thanks the bamboo core, but whose medium flex is at home in the bumps. Tip/tail rocker, camber underfoot.

Not sure what size you prefer, but @SkiEssentials has a few sizes for <$300 right now.
 

cosmoliu

Making fresh tracks
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Central CA Coast
Both of the threads referenced in the OP mentioned the Volkl Kanjo. I spent a half day on them last year at The Jane and thought they were a very versatile all mountain ski that was a blast in bumps. Toward the end of that demo I had my brother try them. He bought a pair.

I'm not sure that necessarily advances the discussion here, but I just remembered that experience and thought I'd mention it.
 

AngryAnalyst

Out on the slopes
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@CS2-6, here's my summary of your information.

Add to this list:

--your height and weight and age
--the number of days you ski each season
--how long you've been skiing

-------and then folks may be able to narrow their suggestions down.

Just FYI - he is 165 and 5 ft 11 and skis 6-10 days/year. Both are in the first post.
 
Thread Starter
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CS2-6

CS2-6

>50% Chicken Fried Steak w/w
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Good eye, Liquid! Thanks.

Liberty Origin 90

Volkl Kanjo

Checked out and added. Those definitely check a lot of my boxes. The Origin might have a little too much sidecut and the Kanjo may be a little stiff, but I went ahead and added them both to my list. Thanks yall.

Just FYI - he is 165 and 5 ft 11 and skis 6-10 days/year. Both are in the first post.

Thanks, AngryAnalyst. But I'll play ball; it's probably a good idea to do a summary anyway.

@CS2-6, here's my summary of your information.

--You ski in southwestern Colorado. You stay on bumps all day.
--You've purchased 90-flex boots that fit and you have custom footbeds in them.
--You are currently renting skis and are looking to buy your first ski, a one-ski quiver.
--At this point you're looking for a ski with subtle tip and tail rocker and traditional camber.
--You want to ski the Dan DiPiro way. You've read the book and taken one lesson.
--You were not impressed with the Bumps-for-Boomers meandering line approach introduced in that lesson you took.
--Skiing a direct line and nailing the zipper line is your goal.
--You're on a ski forum in August and re-watching bump videos.
--5' 11", 165 lbs, 34 years old
--6 to 10 days on the snow per year
--Been skiing yearly since I was 3 (31 years), for 6 days per year on average (at least 3, at most 28)
--Born, raised, and reside in Texas
--Skis I've liked a lot: Volkl Kink, Rossignol Smash 7, 4FRNT Originator
--Skis I've hated: Rossignol Sky 7, Volkl Kendo, Volkl Wall Mogul
--Worst habit: ending up in the backseat
--Second-worst habit: overwritten, rambling internet forum posts
 
Thread Starter
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CS2-6

CS2-6

>50% Chicken Fried Steak w/w
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Updated:

--You ski in southwestern Colorado. You stay on bumps all day.
--You've purchased 90-flex boots that fit and you have custom footbeds in them.
--You are currently renting skis and are looking to buy your first ski, a one-ski quiver.
--At this point you're looking for a ski with subtle tip and tail rocker and traditional camber.
--You want to ski the Dan DiPiro way. You've read the book and taken one lesson.
--You were not impressed with the Bumps-for-Boomers meandering line approach introduced in that lesson you took.
--Skiing a direct line and nailing the zipper line is your goal.
--You don't enjoy skiing fast (don't need a ski with stability at speed)
--You don't ski powder very often (flotation is not a primary concern)
--You're on a ski forum in August and re-watching bump videos.
--You're 5' 11", 165 lbs, 34 years old
--You get 6 to 10 days on the snow per year
--You've been skiing yearly since you were 3 (31 years), for 6 days per year on average (at least 3, at most 28 in a season)
--You were born, raised, and reside in Texas
--Skis you've liked a lot: Volkl Kink, Rossignol Smash 7, 4FRNT Originator
--Skis you've hated: Rossignol Sky 7, Volkl Kendo, Volkl Wall Mogul
--Worst habit: ending up in the backseat
 
Thread Starter
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CS2-6

CS2-6

>50% Chicken Fried Steak w/w
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Internet forum posts in August are an unquestionable good.

Hahaha, good. At least we're heading in the right direction.

Kanjo is definitely NOT stiff. I'm 5'8" and weigh 140# after a big meal. If I can bend it, anyone can.

Blasted flex ratings are really imprecise. Thanks for the input; I think first hand reviews mean more than internet reports of stiffness. After digging in a little more, looks like the skis are surprisingly stiff underfoot, but fairly flexible at the tips and tails. Some folks have suggested this is a good flex profile for moguls.
 

jack97

Out on the slopes
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Jul 7, 2017
Posts
924
Updated:

--You ski in southwestern Colorado. You stay on bumps all day.
--You've purchased 90-flex boots that fit and you have custom footbeds in them.
--You are currently renting skis and are looking to buy your first ski, a one-ski quiver.
--At this point you're looking for a ski with subtle tip and tail rocker and traditional camber.
--You want to ski the Dan DiPiro way. You've read the book and taken one lesson.
--You were not impressed with the Bumps-for-Boomers meandering line approach introduced in that lesson you took.
--Skiing a direct line and nailing the zipper line is your goal.
--You don't enjoy skiing fast (don't need a ski with stability at speed)
--You don't ski powder very often (flotation is not a primary concern)
--You're on a ski forum in August and re-watching bump videos.
--You're 5' 11", 165 lbs, 34 years old
--You get 6 to 10 days on the snow per year
--You've been skiing yearly since you were 3 (31 years), for 6 days per year on average (at least 3, at most 28 in a season)
--You were born, raised, and reside in Texas
--Skis you've liked a lot: Volkl Kink, Rossignol Smash 7, 4FRNT Originator
--Skis you've hated: Rossignol Sky 7, Volkl Kendo, Volkl Wall Mogul
--Worst habit: ending up in the backseat

If you want to ski direct, you need to ingrain into muscle memory making short turns on skis with very little side cut. The more you work on this the sooner it becomes habitual. The techniques to do this was "mainstream" back when skis had less shape but now only taught in freestyle teams.

Get either the Twister or the Mamba/244, its great for soft snow and won't punish you if you go into the back seat. I would also work on the following drills on the flats while getting to the moguls field.

Hopping during the transition, keeps you center when going into the new turn.

Tail Lift with weight on the outside ski, great way to get forward

BTW, DiPiro published his book back around 2005, all Mountain skis did no have the sidecuts of present era skis and most had waist around 70 mm. Still on the narrow side to get on edge of the new turn faster. I doubt anyone can get new skis that narrow other than a mogul ski.
 
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GregK

Skiing the powder
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Found a video with an animation at around the 1:30 mark that shows the “backward bicycle” absorption technique we were talking about on Newschoolers.


Btw-saw Corbetts.com has Head The Caddy on for $269 Canadian(just over $200 US) that would be a great all mountain/mogul ski. It would be a touch more forgiving than the Framewall but still have a nice damp feel and great carving capability. Head Attack2 13 85mm bindings on there for $149.99 Canadian too. Would be a great set for cheap.
 

ted

Getting off the lift
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Jan 23, 2016
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If you have consistent back seat problems, poor alignment in the Sagittal plane (front to back)can contribute to it. Too much or too little binding ramp(delta), or need for heel lift or toe lift inside the boot, are areas that can cause backseat skiing. For me the binding is a bigger culprit than the boot internals. Since you are buying a new setup, and binding toe heel differentials are all over the map, it would make sense buying the most compatible binding for your alignment.
You can try standing in your boots on a level surface and add shims under the heels to replicate common binding heel toe differentials. Bindings range from over 9mm heel high to around two mm heel high. Try adding shims in 2mm increments under your heel while standing n floor and see if how it effects your balance.
 
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Philpug

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Found a video with an animation at around the 1:30 mark that shows the “backward bicycle” absorption technique we were talking about on Newschoolers.


Btw-saw Corbetts.com has Head The Caddy on for $269 Canadian(just over $200 US) that would be a great all mountain/mogul ski. It would be a touch more forgiving than the Framewall but still have a nice damp feel and great carving capability. Head Attack2 13 85mm bindings on there for $149.99 Canadian too. Would be a great set for cheap.
That video was actually done by our on @Bob Barnes and features @Chris Geib and some others.
 

GregK

Skiing the powder
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That video was actually done by our on @Bob Barnes and features @Chris Geib and some others.

Glad I picked that video then. Supporting local talent!
There’s always a scene in every Mogul Boot Camp video where the kids are going over tight spaces rollers going straight and learning absorption but I couldn’t find any when I was looking and instead found that one.

Agree on finding out the proper binding ramp delta/boot forward lean for you as balance is so crucial in the bumps.
 

silverback

Talking a lot about less and less
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BTW, DiPiro published his book back around 2005, all Mountain skis did no have the sidecuts of present era skis and most had waist around 70 mm. Still on the narrow side to get on edge of the new turn faster. I doubt anyone can get new skis that narrow other than a mogul ski.

There are tons of race/racy skis available with waists in the 60's and a lot of more "all mountain" designs in the 70's.
 
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