All Mountain Skis That Are Great In Moguls

[CS2-6]

Long-time...first-time...
I've posted this question on two other forums, but am looking to get as wide a cross-section of opinions as possible. So I apologize if any of yall have seen a very similar post elsewhere.

I looked at all the relevant threads I could find, but didn't come across an answer. Besides, everyone's situation is a little different; and really, what's one more thread on the pile.

Height: 5'11"
Weight: 165lbs
Ability: Expert (If we're being honest with each other, "Advanced")
Location (skiing): Southwestern Colorado (exclusively)
Days on the Snow: 6-10/year

I spend 85% of my time on moguls, but 15% of the time I end up skiing through some crud and tracked out powder because the folks I ski with get tired of all the moguls all the time.

If I'm ever lucky enough for a powder day, I'll rent some fat things. I never go fast on the groomers, so I don't need stability at speed or long, GS turns.

The consensus of past advice has been to save the money of skis and spend it on more days on the snow and possibly lessons. That's fine except the skis I like aren't terribly well stocked in rental shops. Shops that have any usually have the Kinks, but they're all getting a little old (5 seasons now), and they were a soft "freestyle" ski out of the box. And if a shop has a second model, it's usually the Smash7s, which are newer, but set up weird (see below). But, if any of yall still think my money would be better spent on elsewhere, just let me know.

I'm looking for an all-mountain (~80-90mm underfoot, 100 at most) ski that I will really like in the bumps and that I will not really hate in the crud.

I get the impression that the type of ski that works well in the moguls depends a lot on how the skier attacks the moguls. I'm trying to improve, but I know I'm 34 and only ski a week or two a year, so I'll never be anything close to a hot doggin' World Cupper.

Here's a couple videos of me skiing down some blue moguls. Just to give yall an idea of my ability and style:

My research shows I want a torsionally stiff ski, with a soft tip (and tail?, still not sure on that part), and traditional camber. Basically, what Slim outlined in this thread (except for that bit about a tall rocker).

A few years ago when I asked a similar question on other forums, some folks said "just get mogul skis and deal with them in conditions they're not designed for". I was originally hesitant to take this approach because I'd been on the Volkl Mogul Wall and absolutely hated them, in the backseat the entire day. Last season; however, I tried a pair of 4FRNT Originators and absolutely loved them on some skied off blue bumps. I dunno if I got better or if the Mogul Walls are that much stiffer than the Originators. And I'm not sold on the idea that a pair of dedicated bump skis would make a good single quiver for someone like me, but I'm more open to the idea now. Going by that, here's the "short" list of contenders:

Line Blend
Line Honeybadger - may be too flexy
K2 Shreditor - some reviews suggest they may be too rockered
Rossignol Scratch - skied an old pair of these (naked lady silhouette) and liked them (but they were pretty flexed out and the snow was pretty skied off), but not sure I'd enjoy them in any sort of powder or crud. I understand the current model may be too rockered.
Fat-ypus D'root
Fat-ypus G'Butter
4Frnt Vandal
4Frnt Originator
Dynastar Twisters
JSkis The AllPlay
Armada ARV86/ARV96
Armada B-Dog
Faction Prodigy 3.0
Moment PB&J
Lib-Tech Backwards
Head Caddy
Head Framewall - probably too stiff
Salomon Rocker2 - some reviews suggest they're stiffer than I'd like
Blizzard Bushwacker - everyone says these are the best all-mount mogul-bias skis, but it seems that the stiffness varies wildly year to year; they're returning for 2018, but I've got no idea how flexible they'll be
Salomon TNT - metal reinforced? if so, they're probably too stiff for my "style"
Volkl Kink - Skied these multiple years and liked them a lot, but maybe too soft in the tails, seemed like whenever my weight gets back, the tails kinda collapse and I crash (unintentional tail butter?). Probably too soft.
Rossignol Smash7 - I liked these except that the breaks on the rental sticks are too wide and cross each other, basically tying my laces together; if it hadn't happened to me about two times per day, I would've never thought it was possible

I'm a little surprised at how different my list is from fd8's in this thread and from ted's in this thread.

Do yall reckon that has to do with their technique being better or desire for more groomer performance and stability at speed?

Jesus Christ, that was a lot of preamble. Thanks for the help, yall.

 

[Tricia]

I'm a little surprised at how different my list is from fd8's in this thread and from ted's in this thread.

Do yall reckon that has to do with their technique being better or desire for more groomer performance and stability at speed?

Looking at what @fd8 and @ted were looking for and their own description of what they want to get out of the skis, I'm not surprised that your list is so different.

It seems that you're looking for a ski that will ski bumps all day long.
But you're looking at skis that are fairly wide for bumps IMHO.

The most fun I have had in moguls is the DPS Alchemist Trainer 79, but that's not an all mountain ski and isn't what I'd want to ski if I were skiing chutes and/or powder.

Would you consider something like the Dynastar Legend 96?

 

[fatbob]

I think you also have to define what you consider to be moguls and the state you usually ski them in(hard, soft,polished, sugary) and your preferred approach (meander, move from line to line, strict zipline etc).

Me I like moguls in a relatively soft flexing low camber, rockered ski which is probably reasonably hefty in the waist because i) I want my ski primarily for skiing all sorts of other stuff and ii) while I'll ski moguls if I have to at any time I'll only really seek tham out when they are soft enough. As long as I can easily pivot the ski it works fine. I can of course ski moguls better and faster on a more focused utility ski but then I'd be giving something up elsewhere.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

My Meier Quickdraws are an absolute blast in moguls. They are fun, fun, fun. Not planky but very solid and pivot like a dream. They are 88 underfoot, handmade in Denver and come in 166, 171, 176, 181 and 186cm.

https://meierskis.com/products/quickdraw

 

[Philpug]

There are bump skis and there are skis that are good in bumps but make no mistake it is still the Indian and not the arrow that makes the difference. If you are looking for a ski that helps your progression look got a ski that has some nice gradual rise in the tip and ideally some rise in the tail combined with some taper. I would also say to stay in the mid to low 80mm range which helps the edge to edge reaction time. Skis that come to mind for your weight and skiing ability...

Armada Invictus 85
DPS Foundation Cassiar 82/87
Nordica Navigator 80/85
Scott The Ski

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Fischer Pro Mtn 86 should be on the list.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I've been told the Armada Invictus 89ti is a ton of fun in bumps. I haven't skied mine yet so can't confirm.

 

[David Chaus]

Agree with the Fischer Pro Mountain 86. The DPS Cassiar are really nice, though more expensive.

Salomon QST 92 is another to consider.

Maybe Nordica Soul Rider.

If you can find an ON3P Wrenegade 88 from last year, grab that. They discontinued it this year. Perfect all-mountain/mogul ski.

 

[Superbman]

I thought there were only all-mountain skiers who are good at moguls...

 

[Wasatchman]

I find the K2 Pinnacle series (88 or 95 width) really nice in moguls and a very underrated ski overall. I would also think they would be perfect at your weight. I think the Pinnacles are a really fun, versatile ski that does well just about everywhere. The weakness of the ski in my view is that heavier skiers can overpower the ski ripping/carving turns at high speed, but I don't think this would be a huge issue at your weight and from the sound of what you like to ski most of the time. Might be worth a demo.

 

[CS2-6]

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback, yall. I really appreciate it.

The Legend 96, Alchemist Trainer 79, Invictus 89 ti, and Wrenegade 88 all look to be a little too stiff for me. I demoed The Ski one day on some skied off-moguls, and it beat me up pretty bad, so that one is probably out too.

Looks like the Foundation Cassiar 82/87 and Navigator 85 have too short a turn radius for me to be interested in them.

The Pro Mtn 86 Ti, QST 92, Pinnacle, and Quickdraw are also probably too stiff for my liking, and have too much sidecut.

Exactly as @Tricia picked up on, I'm wanting to ski bumps all day long. And I only get to ski in one or two long trips (4-6 days) a year. So I'm afraid a stiff ski that might be really fast for a couple mogul runs a day would absolutely trash me by day 4 if I tried to ride them on the bumps every run for 7 hours a day. Essentially, if I were going to pick up any of these mid-width, all-mountain, carving skis, I'd just get a pair of Twisters or F17 Classics and be done with it. I think Tricia's probably exactly right though, I should move my width range to 70-90mm and forget the wider models.

Is the Invictus 85 (no metal) the same as the ARV with less tail rocker and no twin tip?

The Nordica Soul Rider is interesting, and worthy of further consideration.

Yeah Superbman, there are plenty of all-mountain skiers who are no good at moguls. And there are plenty of all-mountain skiers that ski moguls with a very carve-based technique.

Honestly, I just ski the moguls in whatever state I find them in (usually pretty hard and skied off, but I'm not up to date on all the terms). Southwestern Colorado in early January.

My current method is still pretty similar to the videos linked in the OP, but I'd like to progress more toward a strict zipperline; but I am not afflicted with any illusions of ever Moseleying down a run. And it's definitely the fault of the indian rather than the bow, the arrow, or the moccasins. But I've taken a "bump" lesson (didn't help too much) and read DiPiro's book cover to cover, so outside of heading to Mary Jane for a clinic, I'm not sure what else to try.

 

[Tricia]

Height: 5'11"
Weight: 165lbs
Ability: Expert (If we're being honest with each other, "Advanced")
Location (skiing): Southwestern Colorado (exclusively)
Days on the Snow: 6-10/year

The Legend 96, Alchemist Trainer 79, Invictus 89 ti, and Wrenegade 88 all look to be a little too stiff for me. I demoed The Ski one day on some skied off-moguls, and it beat me up pretty bad, so that one is probably out too.

I can't speak to the Wrenegade 88, but the skis you've listed here are not any stiffer than those on your original list and aren't too stiff for me and my stats are lighter, shorter and more advanced than expert, so some of what you're saying is creating some confusion for me.

 

[David Chaus]

so outside of heading to Mary Jane for a clinic, I'm not sure what else to try.

Yes. Do that.

 

[Andy Mink]

Looks like the Foundation Cassiar 82/87 and Navigator 85 have too short a turn radius for me to be interested in them.

I can't speak to the Navigator but the turn radius on the Cassiar 87 is 19m at 189cm. The nice thing about the 87 is it's very easy to make different shaped turns. Without metal, it has a very easy, consistent flex and with the shape and rocker on the tips and tails it doesn't get "hooky". I am by no means a bump expert but I felt fairly comfortable on them in mixed bump conditions. Another one to consider is the Foundation Cassiar 94. Just a bit wider but with many of the characteristics of the 87. It has a radius of 20m at 191cm.

Since you've listed several wider skis, you may take a look at the Armada Tracer 98. It's a very fun, responsive ski. I didn't get to ski it in bumps but it seemed that it would handle them fine, again with the shape of the ski and its flex characteristics.

 

[Bruuuce]

I chose the Salomon XDR 88 Ti as my ski for a similar purpose although my bump/other ratio is more like 60:40 than 85:15. Might be worth a demo.

 

[Tony S]

The Legend 96, Alchemist Trainer 79, Invictus 89 ti, and Wrenegade 88 all look to be a little too stiff for me. I demoed The Ski one day on some skied off-moguls, and it beat me up pretty bad, so that one is probably out too.

What lengths are you skiing these in? I'm a small guy and even I found the Invictus 89ti very easy-going, and the longest Trainer is only a 168 or something. Anyway, what I really came here to say:

Kastle FX 85 non-HP. Not a universally loved ski here, but I imagine even the haters would admit it's an easy-button bump ski. Checks all your boxes. Easy to bend with a very bump-friendly design. Also tends NOT to be pricey when you find one.

 

[Brice Westring]

There are bump skis and there are skis that are good in bumps but make no mistake it is still the Indian and not the arrow that makes the difference. If you are looking for a ski that helps your progression look got a ski that has some nice gradual rise in the tip and ideally some rise in the tail combined with some taper. I would also say to stay in the mid to low 80mm range which helps the edge to edge reaction time. Skis that come to mind for your weight and skiing ability...

Armada Invictus 85
DPS Foundation Cassiar 82/87
Nordica Navigator 80/85
Scott The Ski

Are there all/big mountain skis 100+ waist that are good in the bumps? Recos?

 

[Tony S]

Are there all/big mountain skis 100+ waist that are good in the bumps? Recos?

You didn't ask me, but my answer is that there are 100mm skis that are good in bumps covered in the kind of snow you'd be skiing if you had a 100mm ski out in the first place. Otherwise not as much.

 

[mdf]

I maintain my unpopular opinion that ski width, as such, does not matter very much. It is mostly a proxy for the designer's intent, which does matter.
There certainly are skis that are easier and more difficult in the bumps... I just don't think it correlates all that well with width.

In my demos last spring, I found huge differences in how easy bumps were with different skis. And I think my technique was worse with the more difficult ones.
(The Nordica Navigator 85 was by far the easiest, by the way.)

 

[Eric267]

Some good recommendations here, especially DPS.

I know I'm always recommending the indie brands here but when one of your main things is wanting a specific flex you like it's kind of a no brainier. If you order in the summer or the fall a lot of "indie brands" will make a ski more or less flexi for little or no extra cost. If you like a ski but don't like the top sheet its $50-100
To go semi custom

Everything Keith at Praxis is offering in the 90-100 range would be a good solid pair of boards. I personally would go piste jib for your specifics

9D. 182.. 90.. 18m
9D8. 185... 98.. 20m
Piste jib.. 184... 99... 25m

Magnus from on3p is another good option.
I think it's 186.. 90...18m. My buddy got the wood grain top sheet on a pair of Kartels when he did it like the stock top sheet and they look awesome