All mountain for 17 year old boy?

[Corgski]

I think @markojp is right, I should have stuck with my original instinct wrt the x88. Yes it is the cooler ski, but that is how one can talk oneself into getting too much ski, the x84 is softer and SKiEssentials like it. If you are not on a budget there are a lot of options. If you are the challenge is that great deals with bindings start getting harder to find above 80mm. ASOGear (Corbetts) have the x84 available with bindings for $409.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-Dynas...hash=item2ce45b1069:m:m8bvx2vdF7225mX22NSeDFw

 

[markojp]

Thanks, I'll do some reading. I am also looking for off-piste and carving chops.

Navigator 90. Soul Rider. Rustler 9 .

 

[SkiMcP]

Just started the demo'ing process with my 14 year old son. He's just about your sons height though at 106lbs, not in the same weight class yet. (Skill wise he's a strong intermediate - can ski most anything here in the east but his form can suffer on steeper terrain - prefers the woods and bumps to wide open groomers - not a park kid.) Tried the Rossi 84 AIs (170cm) and his feedback was that they were simultaneously too stiff and not damp enough. I think a big part of his issue with the ski was that he wasn't heavy enough to keep the ski from popping off the snow. A stiffer ski is not going to absorb as much of the terrain imperfections - which is fine if you are of adult weight and can drive it through the imperfections - but is going to be a confidence killer if the ski can move you easier than the imperfection. I'd think your son would have the same issues with some of the stiffer skis mentioned here.

On a related note, I have a pair of Soulrider 87s for off-piste use and have been pretty happy with them. They might be worth taking a look at as they are pretty reasonable price wise and substantial enough to provide some room for growth. I will say that that I like them in part for their ability to carve on piste and don't find them to be all that slarvy (though that could be a tune issue).

Going to try and get my him on some of the less-metal/non-metal all mountain skis this weekend. Will report any feedback I get. Hoping to get him on the Rustler 9, Bushwacker (CA's new/old name) or something similar (like the OP, seeking recommendations). Also wondering whether there something in the Mindbender line that ought to be on the list - wondering in particular about the 88TI or the 90c (has anyone here been on this one yet?)

 

[Analisa]

Oh - should’ve added the Sick Days. I picked up the Pandora 95s and saw a lot of progression on them. They were pitched as a good "first all mountain ski" and resonated well with intermediate-advanced, light weight, finesse skiers. They're nimble little pocket rockets, and they're cheap. (Quality isn't top tier - I had some minor delaminating on the tails where I clip my skins on, and they also get a beating during the spring when I A-frame them to an overnight bag that's too heavy to put down gently. But nothing a little epoxy couldn't fix).

There are a few negative reviews out there (granted, OGL didn't have the Bonafide ranked much better) - generally they've been looking for crowd-pleasers and not getting the right reviewers on the right skis. Strong, grown skiers would predictably find it insufficient. I haven't skied the 94s yet, but a few laps on the 104s still felts really familiar to the old 95s.

The QST 92 was another one that I strongly considered at that point as well.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Back to the OP, how about something versatile like the Brahma CA? Removes the titanium (see what I did there) and replaces it with carbon, making for a lighter, more playful ski....ok I'll leave it to Evo's description:

"The result is a ripper's "light" delight, combining the unerring precision that skiers love in the regular Brahma with a newfound feeling of freedom and maneuverability in bumps and tight trees. If you're the kind of skier who puts equal store in your ability to rip moguls and challenging sidecountry as well as steamrolling the mountain GS style, this new hybrid Brahma is just what you've been waiting for."

It's a 2018 ski so might pick up a good discount somewhere.

Actually, I was going to suggest the same thing. When my son was 16 and 150 lbs, I put him on the Bushwacker. He continued to grow and build muscle but at 21, 6’1 and 180 lbs he still skus them and loves them. I plan to buy him the Brahma ti next Christmas.

 

[Mendieta]

Oh - should’ve added the Sick Days

Would you think the 88? 94? Many thanks!

BTW, OGL almost got me on the wrong skis when I bough my first pair with about 15 - ski days experience. Their "best ski" in the category I was looking (all mountain) was the Mantra, which was a fully rockered beast.

Luckily I Joined Pugski!

I am compiling a list. I will be skiing with Jr 6 consecutive days in Bachelor. He is incredibly busy with school and he can use some fun days out there. Now, if I can get him on new skis over there, I will. I have similar skis to what he has currently, and I haven't used them in two years. I tried them again the other day on the kind of slopes I am skiing now and I almost fainted. While they were great for the guy with 15 days of experience, they are not a ski to take off-piste confidently. No wonder Jr doesn't like getting off-trail. We'll get there, but we need the gear.

Thank you all, again. I love it here!

 

[Philpug]

I'd send you up with some options if you want to detour through Reno.

 

[Mendieta]

I'd send you up with some options if you want to detour through Reno.

Super generous, Phil. Unfortunately, there is no way we can stop in Reno - it's amazing how much you get out of the way, coming from here. I was hoping to stop for a few laps on the way back, it adds about 3 hours drive! (to an already long trip). Bachelor has a demo area. I checked them out, they seem to have a very limited selection. Oh well, this is a good problem to have

 

[LewyM]

Navigator 90. Soul Rider. Rustler 9 .

This is a good list from a pro who does this (in addition to coaching kids) every day.

One option I'd add is the Solly QST 92 or 99. I've had good success with that ski with my younger son and seen nice progression on the Solly Q series for a number of free-rider'ish teens in our ski clan. The QSTs aren't sexy and cool, but for the mission at hand, I think they are a good option. They are light, and the shape and mount position respond well to a neutral stance over the center of the ski. They tip into turns surprisingly well without being driven much, and the tails are pretty loose (which is a potential feature if your son is slipping or slarving the finish).

My older son, who is technically more polished rides the Atomic 97c, which I also think is a good "tweenager" ski. But that ski responds better to more traditional technique and more completion of the turn tip to tail.

The Soul Rider is a fun ski and proven design. One of the best mid-90 bump skis I've tried. I think it would be a cool option for a growing kid. Easy to ski.

Don't over-club your son either in length or stiffness. I am not a huge fan of the "grow into it" theory. From the kids I've observed, I don't see huge evidence of positive, technical "growth" when they have too much ski for their size and technical skill. More typically, in that scenario, I see "develop bad habits that need to be corrected later."

 

[Mendieta]

Ok, here is my current list. I am keeping skis in the 85-95; I have a strong preference for the narrower end. Length: on the shorter side. Nothing above his head. Hopefully a little shorter but not tremendously shorter (these all tend to ski short).

• Armada Invictus 89Ti
• Blizzard Rustler 9
• Blizzard Brahma Ca
• DPS Cassiar 87
• Dynastar Legend x84
• Nordica Navigator 90
• Nordica Soul Rider
• Salomon QST 92

Pretty subjectively, but I am highlighting those that have received more than one recommendation. Skiessentials shows a great price on the x84. What I like of that ski is that it seems like a natural progression from the Powertracks 79. A little carvier, a little beefier, a little more apt for carving (according to reviews). And it can be bought at a great price, which is a great thing when you are buying something for a couple years of use ...

 

[Mendieta]

Oh, thoughts on the Nordica 80?

http://www.skiessentials.com/2018-nordica-navigator-80-fdt-skis-w-squire-11-fdt-bindings.html

EDIT: it also comes in 85, also the FDT, basically a system ski (which is my preference: lower cost, and he is doing great with his demo bindings on the power tracks)

 

[Analisa]

@Mendieta - my gut says 94, but ask me Monday after test day.

For Bach, if you can't find what you need on the mountain, there are lots of options in Bend.

Legends are also a great choice. My first skis were the Cham W 87s and I convinced my brother to buy my old roommate's 97s last year. He loves them for Tahoe, especially for the bumps & trees. The 84 and the 88 are pretty different - 2 layers of titanal are in the laminates for the 88s. I wouldn't shy away from the 88s even though he's a lightweight. They're definitely not Brahmas. If he wants the width but a little less stiffness in the core, the women's 88 is paulownia instead of poplar, and it's the one model that isn't overtly feminine in the graphics.

The 84s are basically the same ski as the Powertrack 79s - just a tad wider and a slight alteration in shape. I'd double check he wasn't on the Powertrack 79 CAs - in that case the 84s would be softer & less demanding.

FWIW, I don't think the jump from a 79 waist to 88 is super noticeable - I noticed the shape difference and the giant spoons on the Chams when I moved to them from rentals, but didn't really feel a difference going from a 70-something waist to the 87 (granted, west coast/rarely icy unless it's a rain crust). You mentioned he doesn't really care for groomers and that the Powertracks are limiting off piste, so I bet he'd need more than an extra 5mm at the waist to really enjoy a new set of skis.

 

[Mendieta]

I'd double check he wasn't on the Powertrack 79 CAs

Ok, now I owe you a beer or three. He IS on the CAs! Ok, So I am removing the Legends altogether from the list

• Armada Invictus 89Ti
• Blizzard Rustler 9
• Blizzard Brahma Ca
• DPS Cassiar 87
• Nordica Navigator 90
• Nordica Soul Rider
• Salomon QST 92

 

[Eric267]

Take a look at the lib-tech lineup. I put a lib wreckreate 100 into my quiver this season and it's been a really fun ski for all kinds of terrain.
The build quality is good.

The magni-traction serrated edge really does help to keep you locked onto the groomers after you find the sweet spot. Feels traditional with the way it holds groomers and progressive with the style it runs off piste. Not quite Tripple camber but has eliptical entry that kind of sits flat in more traditional (but fat) shovel that rockers up as you pressure the traditional camber underfoot. It's kind of hard to explain.

They make a UFO 100 also that looks like it would be a really fun twin tip all mountain daily driver. They also make a wreckreate 90

Definately something fun and different to look at

 

[Corgski]

2018 Atomic Vantage 90 CTI without bindings for $379.
https://www.coloradodiscountskis.com/store/2018_Vantage_90_CTI.html

It might become a little easier if you review your requirements. You are unlikely to be successfully trying to do everything with one ski, maybe there needs to be a "Do kids need quivers thread?" Splitting the difference between groomers and off piste may just end up with him having something that is not quite right for either. He is unlikely to be into carving with a 90mm+ ski but he probably wouldn't be into it with a 84mm ski either.

The width fight often comes into comes into play when people really want to believe that someone is going to learn to carve on a fat ski when learning to carve on a skinny ski is challenging enough. My solution would be to go 88mm plus for your son, reward yourself for all this effort with a new carver (look under Fischer at the Colorado Discount Skis link, 2018 Curv DTX with bindings for $449), give your son your Rallys to balance out his quiver. (I have 4 kids, I am always scheming ).

 

[Mendieta]

The width fight often comes into comes into play when people really want to believe that someone is going to learn to carve on a fat ski when learning to carve on a skinny ski is challenging enough.

Great point, and I agree. If I could get my way, I would put him on a V6 or V8. But he has no interest in learning purely carved turns. He does use his edges though, but he'll brush a turn. Great! He has fun and that's all that matters to me.

So, when I said earlier that I am looking for all mountain that can carve, and help him go offpiste, I mean a ski that is perhaps less forgiving than the Powertrack, but more assertive on crud, where you need to set an edge. You also need to smear at turns which is what he does best, and I don't want to lose that.

The other day I tried two big boy skis that I thought are amazing (and not surprisingly, reference skis): the Bones in 180 and the Enforcers 100 in 185. If he was adult size, I would be looking into the enforcers for him, since it's more versatile. It doesn't carve as cleanly as the Bonafide but it does allow you to turn on a dime if you need to, or want to.

Does that make any sense? I do believe the list above seems to be consistent with the search. I am happy with it. Now it's a matter of seeing if I find something over there so he can enjoy our week skiing together better. Otherwise, no biggie. I wish I had started this thread a month ago. I would have contacted Jeff @ SkiEssentials and we would be done by now. He helped me get my daughter equipped this season with an amazing value package Oh well, too much going on. I appreciate everybody's time. This seems like a valuable thread for me, and I'm sure many other parents.

 

[tball]

Oh, thoughts on the Nordica 80?

http://www.skiessentials.com/2018-nordica-navigator-80-fdt-skis-w-squire-11-fdt-bindings.html

EDIT: it also comes in 85, also the FDT, basically a system ski (which is my preference: lower cost, and he is doing great with his demo bindings on the power tracks)

Yeah, just buy the Navigator 80.

I'm 179 cm tall and 179 lbs. I've been skiing the 172 cm Navigator 80 a bunch with our kiddos and love them. We've been skiing mostly blue bumps, trees, and groomers, along with a handful of black bumps and trees at Copper Mountain. They've been a great ski on all that terrain. Some proud dad pics:
https://www.pugski.com/threads/2018-19-colorado-weather-and-stoke.11273/page-133#post-344498

I know the price the Navigator 80 makes them feel like they are not a real ski. Don't worry, they are.

They ski like an easy turning advanced/expert ski with a nice even flex that love short turns. They make skiing bumps easy and the bit of rocker makes them easy to smear and ski switch. Great, fun ski, regardless of the price.

 

[markojp]

They ski like an easy turning advanced/expert ski with a nice even flex that love short turns. They make skiing bumps easy and the bit of rocker makes them easy to smear and ski switch. Great, fun ski, regardless of the price.

Dollar per dollar, IMHO, the single most under rated ski on the market. If they said "Kastle" and sold for $950 a pair, everyone would be calmoring for them.

 

[zircon]

Will third that the Navigator 80 is a wonderful ski to progress on and also fun and holds its own among others. And if/when he wants to carve, it’ll do that fine too. The only reason I don’t own one is I could get the Kastle in my size cheaper

The 85 is also a very nice ski, although I actually had more fun on the 80. Haven’t been on the 90.

 

[ella_g]

@Mendieta @RNZ the fischer ranger jr is a popular choice for kids on my kids ski team (both boys & girls) for their freeski ski, I just got my daughter the next size up (152) and they have the 172 on amazon for $150. If he gets into hiking they're pretty light which is a plus ...