• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Thread Starter
TS
AmyPJ

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,835
Location
Ogden, UT
Update after day 4: I am beyond thrilled with how much more control I have over my skis and how much more balanced I feel. I dragged out a pair of old Kastle LX82s I have that I haven't skied in two years. Really lovely feeling skis. They are full camber and I used to struggle to find the sweet spot on them (should be impossible on that ski--it's easy to ski and has a huge sweet spot.) What.A.Blast. I am beginning to realize how much I have been hamstrung by boots. Boots that "fit" with extra padding, but a shell that is miles away from my actual foot.

I can tip the ski and ride the edge easily. I can feel the things that I am doing with my feet and legs and torso that are NOT right, and adjust and the adjustments have an effect. I have to make much smaller movements to feel changes. I have so much more control.

I have zero canting on the right side, and 1 degree inward on the left side. I was at 1/2 degree but it wasn't enough. I did some edging drills yesterday and was able to lay railroad tracks a few times.

During ski testing, I noticed that skis with less rocker were more appealing to me. That's a first! I was able to work a ski like the Salomon S Force Fever (women's version of the S Force Bold) easily. On the flip side, skis with tons of rocker felt too pivot-y which is probably a result of me putting too much work into skiing them. I've had to work SO hard over the years to compensate for big boots that I make big movements which we all know isn't necessary.

I'm looking forward to skiing in powder and fresh crud, which should be on Sunday and Monday (if I dare ski on Monday.) For now, I am having more fun than ever on the groomers. I DO have some alignment issues in my hips that I can feel but I am able to compensate on the snow and believe that I will be able to create new movement patterns to overcome them.

The lesson I hope I've shared here is if you measure for a "race" boot, don't be afraid to go there! The ZJ is a very smooth, easy to flex boot that I've yet to hit a "wall" with the cuff. The stance is a little aggressive, but nothing like that Head B5 I used to own, and the fit is much more snug.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Thanks @AmyPJ for following up so thoroughly. Boot fit matters more than the average recreational skier knows. I hope lots of people read this thread in the future and discover just how much and why it matters.
 
Last edited:

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
Thanks @AmyPJ for following up so thoroughly. Boot fit matters more than the average recreational skier knows. I hope lots of people read this thread in the future and discover just how much they matter.

The fit and the alignment; especially fore/aft. Experiment. Only you are going to know when it's "right". When it's right the light bulb is going to turn on. I too have skied for years and years over my lifetime and it was only last season that I really began to understand the full impact of proper fore/aft alignment and how critical it was to getting the most out of my skiing.

Don't be afraid to "play" with toe shims and modifying the ramp angle of the bootboard (barring any major shell fit concerns). Understand that bindings have different deltas and that it will most definitely have an impact on your skiing. There is a "best" that yields the optimal balance for your body over your skis.
 
Thread Starter
TS
AmyPJ

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,835
Location
Ogden, UT
^^^ Boot fit is not just length, either. I mean, we're all told that, but even a 98 last on my 80mm feet was NOT narrow enough, let alone low-volume enough in other areas of the foot. And yes, the fore/aft, as I am having to play with again, and am also finding if my boot is more "forward", I don't like a binding that is mounted forward, even if the ski is meant to have it mounted there.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
^^^ Boot fit is not just length, either. I mean, we're all told that, but even a 98 last on my 80mm feet was NOT narrow enough, let alone low-volume enough in other areas of the foot. And yes, the fore/aft, as I am having to play with again, and am also finding if my boot is more "forward", I don't like a binding that is mounted forward, even if the ski is meant to have it mounted there.

Bingo. Me too. Honestly, a huge epiphany for me that started last season. I've been putting all my bindings back to the factory mark in most cases (as long as it's at the narrowest point of the sidecut). Today I remounted the toes on my new Fischer Ranger 115 deep skis 12mm further back to "calm" them down a touch.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
Update after day 4: I am beyond thrilled with how much more control I have over my skis and how much more balanced I feel. I dragged out a pair of old Kastle LX82s I have that I haven't skied in two years. Really lovely feeling skis. They are full camber and I used to struggle to find the sweet spot on them (should be impossible on that ski--it's easy to ski and has a huge sweet spot.) What.A.Blast. I am beginning to realize how much I have been hamstrung by boots. Boots that "fit" with extra padding, but a shell that is miles away from my actual foot.

I can tip the ski and ride the edge easily. I can feel the things that I am doing with my feet and legs and torso that are NOT right, and adjust and the adjustments have an effect. I have to make much smaller movements to feel changes. I have so much more control.

I have zero canting on the right side, and 1 degree inward on the left side. I was at 1/2 degree but it wasn't enough. I did some edging drills yesterday and was able to lay railroad tracks a few times.

During ski testing, I noticed that skis with less rocker were more appealing to me. That's a first! I was able to work a ski like the Salomon S Force Fever (women's version of the S Force Bold) easily. On the flip side, skis with tons of rocker felt too pivot-y which is probably a result of me putting too much work into skiing them. I've had to work SO hard over the years to compensate for big boots that I make big movements which we all know isn't necessary.

I'm looking forward to skiing in powder and fresh crud, which should be on Sunday and Monday (if I dare ski on Monday.) For now, I am having more fun than ever on the groomers. I DO have some alignment issues in my hips that I can feel but I am able to compensate on the snow and believe that I will be able to create new movement patterns to overcome them.

The lesson I hope I've shared here is if you measure for a "race" boot, don't be afraid to go there! The ZJ is a very smooth, easy to flex boot that I've yet to hit a "wall" with the cuff. The stance is a little aggressive, but nothing like that Head B5 I used to own, and the fit is much more snug.
Awesome. I guess we got lucky. ;)
 

vindibona1

Getting on the lift
Instructor
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Posts
174
Location
Northern Illinoi
Thanks for the updates Amy. From what I saw in your initial PNG there were a lot of issues. I'm glad you got most of them sorted out.

Something you had mentioned rather casually were "toe lifts". IMO don't speak of them often, and consequently most of us don't understand when they're needed or what they do to help. You spoke of 3mm toe lifts, which is quite a lot. I've never seen commercially available toe lifts, so if they are made I'd love to know what's actually available that can be purchased. Do you know exactly what they put in your boots? Can you share the info? For such modifications I've been using layers of decorator tape, or if not available, layers of heavy Scotch packing/shipping tape as these materials don't compress much.

I was also thinking pelvis rotation/tilt, etc., and maybe PT would be a better pathway?

One thing that I find useful is having a Chiropractor or PT working on releasing the facia of my IT bands in my legs. Just having that additional flexibility allows stuff to work better as the body can find more natural movements without forcing anyone.

One more thing... Getting a cant evaluation and possible boot sole grinding (or replaceable canted soles) can be extremely valuable to some skiers. Before my knee replacement, I had this done to my boots, then in conjunctions with cuff angle, made skiing so much easier. Actual canting and cuff adjustments are not mutually exclusive, but work hand-in-hand. Cuff angle adjustments do not replace canting. Just saying.
 
Thread Starter
TS
AmyPJ

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,835
Location
Ogden, UT
Thanks for the updates Amy. From what I saw in your initial PNG there were a lot of issues. I'm glad you got most of them sorted out.

Something you had mentioned rather casually were "toe lifts". IMO don't speak of them often, and consequently most of us don't understand when they're needed or what they do to help. You spoke of 3mm toe lifts, which is quite a lot. I've never seen commercially available toe lifts, so if they are made I'd love to know what's actually available that can be purchased. Do you know exactly what they put in your boots? Can you share the info? For such modifications I've been using layers of decorator tape, or if not available, layers of heavy Scotch packing/shipping tape as these materials don't compress much.



One thing that I find useful is having a Chiropractor or PT working on releasing the facia of my IT bands in my legs. Just having that additional flexibility allows stuff to work better as the body can find more natural movements without forcing anyone.

One more thing... Getting a cant evaluation and possible boot sole grinding (or replaceable canted soles) can be extremely valuable to some skiers. Before my knee replacement, I had this done to my boots, then in conjunctions with cuff angle, made skiing so much easier. Actual canting and cuff adjustments are not mutually exclusive, but work hand-in-hand. Cuff angle adjustments do not replace canting. Just saying.
So, Phil did the toe lifts although my own fitter does them, too. Holy cow, do they help. They go on the boot sole. And I ended up shimming the toes on my Aattack 13 bindings, which I have been struggling on in these boots. I have NEVER felt so balanced, and so in control as I did today in a lot of crud. I am really, really excited about these boots.

My IT bands are always a mess. I need to work on them more! Good reminder!
 

vindibona1

Getting on the lift
Instructor
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Posts
174
Location
Northern Illinoi
So, Phil did the toe lifts although my own fitter does them, too. Holy cow, do they help. They go on the boot sole. And I ended up shimming the toes on my Aattack 13 bindings, which I have been struggling on in these boots. I have NEVER felt so balanced, and so in control as I did today in a lot of crud. I am really, really excited about these boots.

Interesting. I've always done them under the insole. I've mentioned in past posts that I have a really messed up left leg from an accident which left my ankle partially immobile. So I've always jacked up the heel to extend my ankle. But an extended ramp angle of course pitches the body a bit forward as well. If I don't have something to push back on I would end up leaning too much on the cuff and perhaps even hanging in the bindings. Putting something under the toes gives something to push back against. To be honest, my heel lift isn't too severe, only 3/8", but enough. The toe support gives just enough counter support for good balance.

Edit: It was pointed out to me by one of our illustrious members that I'd forgotten the functional difference between raising the toe of the whole boot vs just inside under the insole. It's just been a long time since I've seen that modification on anyone. Thanks Cantunamunch.

I'm curious as to what you're feeling in your feet now that you have toe ramps? How has your fore/aft balance changed? Anything else you can think of and share?

For the sake of sharing how the underneath of one of my insoles looks like, here is a photo of how I've used tape to fine tune where I felt I needed some extra support. One or two layers of tape can be significant. For me, I've round that some tape support under my smaller toes gives me a quicker, more positive response when trying to get to the outside edges. I don't just tip to the baby toe side, but having something to push against helps me keep my weight forward. Just a couple tape layers is all it takes. Also- note the indentation on the insole to the inside, working to the rear of the ball of my foot. I find that support in that area is important to finding my balance point.

SkiBoot_orthotic.jpg
 
Last edited:

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
Interesting. I've always done them under the insole. I've mentioned in past posts that I have a really messed up left leg from an accident which left my ankle partially immobile. So I've always jacked up the heel to extend my ankle. But an extended ramp angle of course pitches the body a bit forward as well. If I don't have something to push back on I would end up leaning too much on the cuff and perhaps even hanging in the bindings. Putting something under the toes gives something to push back against. To be honest, my heel lift isn't too severe, only 3/8", but enough. The toe support gives just enough counter support for good balance.

Edit: It was pointed out to me by one of our illustrious members that I'd forgotten the functional difference between raising the toe of the whole boot vs just inside under the insole. It's just been a long time since I've seen that modification on anyone. Thanks Cantunamunch.

I'm curious as to what you're feeling in your feet now that you have toe ramps? How has your fore/aft balance changed? Anything else you can think of and share?

For the sake of sharing how the underneath of one of my insoles looks like, here is a photo of how I've used tape to fine tune where I felt I needed some extra support. One or two layers of tape can be significant. For me, I've round that some tape support under my smaller toes gives me a quicker, more positive response when trying to get to the outside edges. I don't just tip to the baby toe side, but having something to push against helps me keep my weight forward. Just a couple tape layers is all it takes. Also- note the indentation on the insole to the inside, working to the rear of the ball of my foot. I find that support in that area is important to finding my balance point.

View attachment 93905

Anything you stick inside the boot is going to alter the boot fit. The mods in your picture are obviously insole mods and these change how your foot sits in the boot. They won't change how your boot sits on the skis. That's the real key in understanding what fore/aft modifications you need in order to truly achieve a balanced stance.

I have long held the suspicion that many, if not most, racers utilize some level of "gas pedal" in their fore/aft setup; whether it was done on the boots or at the binding/plate level. Today I purchased a new pair of Fischer The Curv skis that have the Curv Booster plate and Z13 Freeflex race-type bindings. The interesting part of this is that the Booster plate is significantly thicker in the toe section than the heel. The plate alone will jack up your toes, but the binding also comes with a toe lifter shim included. Add in the toe lifter shim too and now you're talking some serious gas pedaling. I haven't put the new setup together yet, but I'll be taking some measurements after I'm done to see just what this setup yields. Note that this ski is Fischer's "designed by racers" for "serious carving enthusiats" ski. It's not quite FIS ski stiff, but it's close.
 

vindibona1

Getting on the lift
Instructor
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Posts
174
Location
Northern Illinoi
Anything you stick inside the boot is going to alter the boot fit. The mods in your picture are obviously insole mods and these change how your foot sits in the boot. They won't change how your boot sits on the skis. That's the real key in understanding what fore/aft modifications you need in order to truly achieve a balanced stance.
I haven't found it to be the case in terms of altering boot fit. The depth is so minute. You can feel it under foot, but really can't feel the change beyond that. I agree that how the boot sits on the skis is important. Some of that has to do with the binding and how high or low the toe/heel is in relation to each other. Also, most skis don't have flat tops, so binding location comes into play as well.

I have long held the suspicion that many, if not most, racers utilize some level of "gas pedal" in their fore/aft setup; whether it was done on the boots or at the binding/plate level.
While my race days ended a few years ago, and I wouldn't suggest my toe lifts are a "gas pedal" I can tell you they work for me- and others. In fact, I just did some in my nephew's ski boots who is at Aspen/Snowmass right now. I just heard from him and he said he never skied better in his life. So yeah, fore/aft balance is important, but I think it goes beyond that. I think it becomes a matter of how much leverage you can apply to the extremities of the skis with a limited amount of movement.

Today I purchased a new pair of Fischer The Curv skis that have the Curv Booster plate and Z13 Freeflex race-type bindings. The interesting part of this is that the Booster plate is significantly thicker in the toe section than the heel. The plate alone will jack up your toes, but the binding also comes with a toe lifter shim included. Add in the toe lifter shim too and now you're talking some serious gas pedaling. I haven't put the new setup together yet, but I'll be taking some measurements after I'm done to see just what this setup yields. Note that this ski is Fischer's "designed by racers" for "serious carving enthusiats" ski. It's not quite FIS ski stiff, but it's close.

That's getting out of my wheelhouse. Years ago I used to race on Fischers when riser plates first came into vogue and FIS hadn't quite stepped in yet. It sounds like a great ski. Now that I have boots that can really crank I've got to start looking into skis. Technology has changed, even in the last few years and is almost mind blowing.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
AmyPJ

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,835
Location
Ogden, UT
Update day 30 (??) I am so happy with this set up! That diverging tip issue has improved immensely--I can focus on other stuff besides my feet moving around and the skis being uncontrollable, and just SKI, and feel how small changes in my body mechanics affects what's happening on the snow. I can do short radius turns on steeper terrain, and I no longer have such fear on steeper terrain because I can control my skis and scrub speed easily. I'm skiing faster than ever if I want to, but am having a lot of fun working on slow turns, too.

I don't think it's just that I found a great fit for me, I think it's also a bit of the Dual Core construction in this boot that just feels smooth and precise and with a nice rebound to it. Thanks to @Philpug for helping me get the canting dialed and the fore-aft dialed! Now, if we could get a few more powder days, which we have not had in two months, that'd be nice :ogbiggrin:
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top