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FairToMiddlin

FairToMiddlin

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So, @FairToMiddlin ... If I'm going to buy a 96, do I buy the Kästle FX 96 or the Elan Ripstick Black 96? Supplemental info: I fell totally in love with the Elan Wingman 82 cti last weekend. Specifically I liked the combination of compliant longitudinal flex with slice-y accuracy on edge. Does the Ripstick feel like that? Did you get on the 96?

Tony, you managed to find the two skis I would have the hardest time picking between (well, but for one factor). I like the shape of the Ripstick, possibly the best all mountain shape out there, as happy on and off piste as a mid 90s ski can be, a touch better on the frontside than the FX96. Off the groomed, the FX is a hair quicker, only slightly. Both have feel/flex that inspires confidence, so a draw there.

The determining factor for me is Elan forcing us to have a dedicated right/left ski. Maybe it’s a personal scar; I used to have all of my leg length discrepancy hardware between the ski and the binding, so every pair I had was left/right specific. Relocating all of that hardware in my boot frees me from that, and I’m a reluctant to buy a pair of skis that imposes that on me again.

As far as the Black’s flex, the sheet of carbon ups the longitudinal beef a bit, and increases the top speed a lot (compared to the standard RS). It doesn’t lose its playfulness, but it might not be as compliant as the Wingman you tried, which could be another tick in favor of the FX for you.

The attributes you assign to the Wingman are eerily similar to this year’s (and discontinued for next year) Sollie XDM 84; longitudinally supple, but remarkable torsional rigidity.

Oh, and I didn’t get the FX96, I don’t think it’s for sale yet, but I’ll find room for it in my quiver eventually (and the Mantra 102, shhhhh).
 
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James

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AFAIK Stockli markets the AX as an all-mountain ski, NOT a carver, so a 1.3 base bevel may disappoint but is hardly absurd
This is true about "all mountain". That's sort of particular to Europe though. While I tend to agree, very few even over there are going to take this for a guided off piste day. (Hell I use a slalom ski over there as all mountain. But not guided.)

Almost no one here considers 78mm to be all mountain anymore. Maybe "versatile carver" should be the name.
ScottB's point is you can't go from a big base bevel to a little one in your basement. It's a grind.
 

ScottB

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Stockli markets the AX as an all-mountain ski, NOT a carver, so a 1.3 base bevel may disappoint but is hardly absurd.
The Laser SL/SX/SC come with a base beveled at 1 -- even if that's also too tame.

(I do realize that a grind would be the easy fix; I just figure "real" skiers use files and elbow grease rather than trust an inept shop rat :D.)

1.0 seems like a fairly common base bevel on new skis and works for a wide range of skiers. Somewhere between 1.0 and 2.0 a ski becomes unskiable on hard snow. I don't know exactly when but I suspect higher than 1.5. I have experience with 2.0 and it is dangerous on slick snow. It might be a function of my size (clyde) and not the same for everyone.

The only shop I trust to grind my skis is SKIMD, who is expensive, but consistently excellent. Not to say there aren't others that are trustworthy.
 
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James

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The determining factor for me is Elan forcing us to have a dedicated right/left ski. Maybe it’s a personal scar; I used to have all of my leg length discrepancy hardware between the ski and the binding, so every pair I had was left/right specific. Relocating all of that hardware in my boot frees me from that, and I’m a reluctant to buy a pair of skis that imposes that on me again.

That's how I feel without the previous scars. Plus, I wonder what happens when you grind a twisted ski. Possibly old style rubber pressure wheel is better. Or, that might butcher the non twisted side as it presses the twist down.
I loved the first-generation FX94 (it remains my touring ski). I was underwhelmed by the relative numbness of the second- and third-gen FXs, but next year’s heir to the FX bloodline is fantastic, a new-school take on old-school snow feel.
Loved the first gen. Exceptional snow feel. Up there all time tops. They had two thin sheets of metal though. Now, none! You're saying you don't miss it?
 

Tony S

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The determining factor for me is Elan forcing us to have a dedicated right/left ski.

Yup. I've always thought exactly the same. So much so that I pretty much just stayed away from the brand. But after my Wingman afternoon I'm starting to wonder if they might actually be onto something. Dunno.
 
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FairToMiddlin

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Yup. I've always thought exactly the same. So much so that I pretty much just stayed away from the brand. But after my Wingman afternoon I'm starting to wonder if they might actually be onto something. Dunno.

Eh, I bet they could keep the construction, delete the amphibious shape, and have A) nobody notice a difference in feel, and B) everybody preferring it. That said, if the FX96 wasn't coming next year, I'd put the Black at the top of the mid 90s heap.
 
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FairToMiddlin

FairToMiddlin

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That's how I feel without the previous scars. Plus, I wonder what happens when you grind a twisted ski. Possibly old style rubber pressure wheel is better. Or, that might butcher the non twisted side as it presses the twist down.

Loved the first gen. Exceptional snow feel. Up there all time tops. They had two thin sheets of metal though. Now, none! You're saying you don't miss it?

Until I read what you wrote, I didn't have an appreciation for the tuning nuance of the amphibio shape; sheesh.

Of course I don't miss the feel of the first gen FX; unlike somebody I know, I didn't sell my OG FXs off to @DeAnn Sloan so I still have them to enjoy. :cool:

But to answer what you actually asked: the feel is different, I'm not saying you can do a blind taste test and not tell. But unlike the middle two FX generations, the snow feel and the communication is back. Renoun and Head Kore were probably the first metaless (all words are made up) skis that communicated and damped ably without titanal, and this lil' guy from Kastle does a great job as well.
 

James

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Of course I don't miss the feel of the first gen FX; unlike somebody I know, I didn't sell my OG FXs off to @DeAnn Sloan so I still have them to enjoy. :cool:
You have that backwards. I bought the Fx's from DeAnn at Abasin. Had them for several years. They reached the end of the road at Geib Alpine being waxed when part of the base came off.

I transported the body back on the plane and either La Guardia or Denver baggage handling delivered the coup de grâce. They dragged the bag on the tarmac at speed it seems. Melted through the bag, melted a vest, sanded down a Griffon heel and one ski tail. At least the good ski in the bag received only minor scrapes. I did get a voucher from Southwest.
I still haven't thrown it out yet.
 
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FairToMiddlin

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You have that backwards. I bought the Fx's from DeAnn at Abasin. Had them for several years. They reached the end of the road at Geib Alpine being waxed when part of the base came off.

I transported the body back on the plane and either La Guardia or Denver baggage handling delivered the coup de grâce. They dragged the bag on the tarmac at speed it seems. Melted through the bag, melted a vest, sanded down a Griffon heel and one ski tail. At least the good ski in the bag received only minor scrapes. I did get a voucher from Southwest.
I still haven't thrown it out yet.

Whoa; that’s how that went down? I remember my last turns of the season (however many years ago) being at AB on those very skis, weird. Sorry to hear they came to grief down the road, they were sublime. They deserved better than that.

Speaking of geib, he’s still touring on his first gen FX94s as well, maybe you can talk him out of them...
 

James

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Kastle offers a semi custom ski, ID4, from a few dealers in Europe.

https://www.kaestle.com/en/products/skis/show/id4/
IMG_6480.jpg
 

ski otter 2

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The 1.3* tune to me is interesting, but not for the AX. (And I agree with folks who have said that such a factory bevel is always a bevel within tolerances, in this case apparently a fairly tight + or - .25*, which would mean a 1.05 to 1.55 range.)

Rather, the 1.3* base or more seems interesting for a soft snow ski, or a ski one wants to add forgiveness to, for whatever reason. I believe @Ron had a 2* base bevel put on his Faction CT 3.0, which is for the most part a soft snow ski. If I recall rightly, he did it at the suggestion of folks in a top shop in Steamboat. And he must have liked it, as he's used and recommended that ski a bunch. I've demoed the 3.0 with a rep's demo tune, and it's a great ski to me also. In addition to being a great powder/crud ski, I found it to be a cheater powder bump ski. Just super. And if there were going to be a ski to experiment on with base bevels greater than 1, this might well be a good start.

(With my own 17/18 184 AX, I couldn't tell that bevel was on it, if it was - although to me the ski lacked something in edge grip, on, say, refrozen groomers to start the day - so I put a .7/3 bevel on it, flattening the bases some by hand in the process, grumble, grumble. Better.)
 

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If factory tune were 1 then some would still gripe but most could live with it for a season and get a grind for the following year. 1.3 is silly.

I'm probably one of those who wouldn't notice a difference, I skied a factory 0.5 all year without knowing it. In skinny glades with deep snow I did notice it was harder to turn.
 

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Slalom 157/8's in general are stiffer than the 155/6's. The numbers just make it easier to tell. The shorter ones are meant for lighter skiers. So, you're comparing different skis.

Afaik, Augments flex index applies to each ski only. So a 6 in one ski isn't directly comparable to a 6 in another. Just relatively. As in a 6 is towards the soft side of the middle.

James, that's correct. Each ski has a different flex range as it's targeted at a different skier.
 

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Adjusted to reflect my impression of this ski. Super smooth, super quiet. Also easy on the eyes. Not versatile enough for my size, usual terrain, and typical skiing habits to make me want to buy it. If I skied big high speed GS turns habitually like Phil I'd probably be all over it.

@Tony S the new All-Mountain 88 has a new softer forebody. We got to play with it at the factory last week and we like where it's headed. We're also going to adjust how we speak in flexes. The skis will always be able to be ordered in a specific flex from 1-10 but we'll start grouping them together to help with retail sales (in the non-race categories) of Stiff (1-3), Medium (4-7), and Soft (8-10). The Soft flex group will be our most popular.
 

Tony S

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@Tony S the new All-Mountain 88 has a new softer forebody. We got to play with it at the factory last week and we like where it's headed. We're also going to adjust how we speak in flexes. The skis will always be able to be ordered in a specific flex from 1-10 but we'll start grouping them together to help with retail sales (in the non-race categories) of Stiff (1-3), Medium (4-7), and Soft (8-10). The Soft flex group will be our most popular.

Sweet. ogsmile
 
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FairToMiddlin

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@Tony S the new All-Mountain 88 has a new softer forebody. We got to play with it at the factory last week and we like where it's headed. We're also going to adjust how we speak in flexes. The skis will always be able to be ordered in a specific flex from 1-10 but we'll start grouping them together to help with retail sales (in the non-race categories) of Stiff (1-3), Medium (4-7), and Soft (8-10). The Soft flex group will be our most popular.

Hi, thanks for contributing to the discussion. @Drahtguy Kevin and I were the gapers that stumbled into your tent during the On Snow at Copper, it has been a pleasure to experience your product since then, and read about the race skis you sent to @ScotsSkier elsewhere on the forum. A few weeks ago, I had a day on the 77 Carbon Ti, 175cm '4' flex. It's an impressive all mountain ski, with an enthusiastic/precise shape and bottomless grip, all the while feeling planted to the refreeze, yet still capable off piste. The '4' flex puts it into the 'serious zone'; a superb weapon for the skilled, a bit of a handful for those in the middle of the learning curve. It's a credit to Augment's design philosophy that you can take that supremely capable ski and merely dial it down for an advancing intermediate to learn on.

Will the 88 you mention be a product we can sample or test early in the '19-'20 season? Also, (and I realize it would expand your logistical tail, but it would make a big impact), would it be possible down the road to demo the same model/length in two flex numbers, back to back? The same ski, but 2 or 3 flex numbers apart, would be massive for helping buyers purchase confidently, plunking down the cash with the knowledge that they are getting what's best for them.
 

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