8 degree base bevel

[crgildart]

Old school method...
Tan masking tape is .15 mms thick. 5-6 layers over the file with the air between and gum gets you roughly a full mm. 60 mms in from the edge, would be roughly on the other edge of an old school ski gave us what we called a one. .5 would be 3-4 layers of masking tape..

Use gorilla tape to get 8 degrees..

 

[Jacques]

I bought a set of feeler gauges the other day... I haven’t had the opportunity to practice yet, but I’d definitely like to have a better idea of how my base edges are doing.

All you need is a fixed base bevel guide. Use a black marker to cover the base edge. Then make some passes with a file or dry stone.
If only the inside ink is removed, the bevel is worn and or greater than. Keep in mind if the base is not flat (most are not) the base bevel will reflect that.
Is the base convex? Is the base concave? Many might be a bit of both. That in relation to the 60mm from the edge will make a difference.
Don't get too freaked out about your base bevel. After time it's going to get worn out. For most skiers, it will wear more on one side than the other as they tend to always stop and slide etc. on one edge more than the other.
Once worn out beyond your liking, the only thing you can do is re-flatten the ski with someone that knows how to use a grinder. Or sometimes a ski can be brought around with a lot of hand work. That involves a lot of steel scraping to flatten the base combined with base edge work at the same time. Little here, a little there. It is very time consuming and requires much practical experience.
Either way there is no perfect world. Not even in most new skis, let alone a used one.

 

[Jacques]

I guess if you cut the edge in half, that’s a 45 degree angle and you’d have to grind the entire edge and base height to put that to back to flat which would grind the entire base and edge away.
So you have less than 45 degrees to play with to still have SOME base left after getting it back flat.

To get an 8 degree angle flat again, you’d have to take down the edge/base around 18% of the total base/edge height(8 divided by 45) if my math is correct. So you’d still have a bit over 80% of the base/edge left after correction.

So it’s fixable but would require lots of passes to get flat again. Seems like an insanely high bevel though!

If you say so. My math skills are not that fancy. Much thanks for that! I guess that assumes the ski base is not overly convex.

 

[Jacques]

Old school method...
Tan masking tape is .15 mms thick. 5-6 layers over the file with the air between and gum gets you roughly a full mm. 60 mms in from the edge, would be roughly on the other edge of an old school ski gave us what we called a one. .5 would be 3-4 layers of masking tape..

Use gorilla tape to get 8 degrees..

Ah yes, but you still need a wrap of tape on the outer file to guide the 60mm distance!

 

[KevinF]

If you say so. My math skills are not that fancy. Much thanks for that! I guess that assumes the ski base is not overly convex.

Assuming a 2mm wide edge, an 8 degree base would mean the far side would be 2 * sin(8) = 0.3mm "down" (ok, 0.278mm for anybody who is whipping out the calculator to double-check me).

You had stated earlier than the base material itself is generally around 1mm thick... You're definitely losing a LOT of material.

Like you said, if the bases are convex or concave as well, there's probably no recovering.

Edit: ski edges and mini-golf. The only two known applications of trigonometry.

 

[AmyPJ]

Well, I just dropped off a pair of skis at SkiMD. Mike DeSantis said that the base bevel was 8 degrees, and he said that there was no way that I could have skied them and made any turns on hardpack. Funny thing: I never noticed any problem.

Either 1) he is wrong (very unlikely); 2) I am going to ski so much better when I get them back (also very unlikely); or 3) I cannot judge the tune of a ski to save my life (the most likely answer). Just think how much I will save on ski tunes in the future: since I cannot tell the difference if a ski is tuned correctly, then there is no point in worrying about how my edges are sharpened!

OK, first of all and

And, my resident tune expert said that would be like skiing on a spoon! And you'll have to "grind the piss out of them" to get them flat again.

 

[bbinder]

All I know is that Mike said that he was going to make the bases of the skis want to cry.

 

[bbinder]

OK, first of all and

And, my resident tune expert said that would be like skiing on a spoon! And you'll have to "grind the piss out of them" to get them flat again.

I know, right! And yet I swear that I was carving (or as close to carving that I can do) on these skis. Maybe I was skiing so fast that I caused the base bevel to increase...

 

[GregK]

If you say so. My math skills are not that fancy. Much thanks for that! I guess that assumes the ski base is not overly convex.

Yes, a heavily convex base would cause more base to be taken off before you even started hitting the edge issue! Not trying to do the math on that. Lol

Typical base height is 1.3mm with some park biased skis like ON3P being 1.6mm.

 

[AmyPJ]

I know, right! And yet I swear that I was carving (or as close to carving that I can do) on these skis. Maybe I was skiing so fast that I caused the base bevel to increase...

You got those bases so hot, you convexiddded them!
I'm cracking up.

 

[bbinder]

Glad I could provide some entertainment!

 

[Jacques]

Assuming a 2mm wide edge, an 8 degree base would mean the far side would be 2 * sin(8) = 0.3mm "down" (ok, 0.278mm for anybody who is whipping out the calculator to double-check me).

You had stated earlier than the base material itself is generally around 1mm thick... You're definitely losing a LOT of material.

Like you said, if the bases are convex or concave as well, there's probably no recovering.

Edit: ski edges and mini-golf. The only two known applications of trigonometry.

Nice! You the man. Some skis have thicker edges and bases. For one, ON3P has (before factory grinding) 1.8mm bases (DuraSurf) and 2,5 x 2.5mm edges.!!
At some point the skis are just going to go through the goal post of life! I am one that skis lots of old old skis! I fix them best I can, but at some point they are done.
Huge advantage for me is I only come in about 130 lbs. and am okay with a soft flex!

 

[Jacques]

OK, first of all and

And, my resident tune expert said that would be like skiing on a spoon! And you'll have to "grind the piss out of them" to get them flat again.

DPS Spoon and many others. Tapered skis! Elan whatevers. One side spoon, and the other not.

 

[Jacques]

All I know is that Mike said that he was going to make the bases of the skis want to cry.

If anyone can...........he can I am sure. I don't know him, but I am sure. As long as you don't cry after he is done, all will be good.

 

[Jacques]

Glad I could provide some entertainment!

THREADS!

 

[KingGrump]

I know, right! And yet I swear that I was carving (or as close to carving that I can do) on these skis.

It is amazing what happens when you ski in that alternate reality called Alta.
Maybe I should pop over Checkpoint Charlie next time I am there and visit Shangri-La.

 

[Jacques]

Nice! You the man. Some skis have thicker edges and bases. For one, ON3P has (before factory grinding) 1.8mm bases (DuraSurf) and 2,5 x 2.5mm edges.!!
At some point the skis are just going to go through the goal post of life! I am one that skis lots of old old skis! I fix them best I can, but at some point they are done.
Huge advantage for me is I only come in about 130 lbs. and am okay with a soft flex!

My own post bring me back to another point.
Long base bevels.
Is a one degree base bevel the same on a base edge with 1.5mm's vs a 2.5mm thick base edge? Assume with both thicknesses you did NOT do it long.
Only bevel the steel edge. Do not extend into the base plastic!
So one degree at a distance of 1.5 vs 2,5mm length of edge.
Which ski is going to ski better?
All you 0.5 base bevel folks, please chime in!

 

[Jacques]

It is amazing what happens when you ski in that alternate reality called Alta.
Maybe I should pop over Checkpoint Charlie next time I am there and visit Shangri-La.

My alternate reality. Yes, we get icy conditions.

 

[Ken_R]

Well, I just dropped off a pair of skis at SkiMD. Mike DeSantis said that the base bevel was 8 degrees, and he said that there was no way that I could have skied them and made any turns on hardpack. Funny thing: I never noticed any problem.

Either 1) he is wrong (very unlikely); 2) I am going to ski so much better when I get them back (also very unlikely); or 3) I cannot judge the tune of a ski to save my life (the most likely answer). Just think how much I will save on ski tunes in the future: since I cannot tell the difference if a ski is tuned correctly, then there is no point in worrying about how my edges are sharpened!

1) No way

2) on firm snow Yes!

3) Yes!



8º base bevel...I bet the average rental ski is like that...

 

[Jacques]

Well, another point to ponder.
Your base edge is very worn and rounded.
I am going to say you need to file the crap out of the side edge before you even work on the base edge.
I mean like a lot. Take it back. Sidewall plane again. Take it back. Etc. etc. just keep going.
The ski only going to last so long anyway.
I am still skiing some old Salomon 1080 foam core skis. The edges are now about 0.5mm's at best. Maybe thinner. Still ski fine for me.
Glad I have another pair in the shed just waiting to be worked over and skied to life again!