78 vs 88

Discussion in 'Hardgoods: Skis, Bindings, Poles, and More' started by LKLA, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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    Given similar flex, construction and radius, a 78mm ski should be easier to progress on and give higher adhesion at a given effort than an 88.

    I live in Michigan, I no longer have a Brahma, but the Latigo at 78mm is the beez kneez. Quicker edge to edge, higher grip, more playful in bumps and trees and I can even cut single digit handicaps on a nastar course with it. The only thing the Brahma was better at was fresh snow over a few inches and spring slush. For 90% of my skiing, I don't miss it.

    My free skiing is all on Latigo's and Titans. I have SR95's and an array of other skis, but they are simply the most versatile for typical Michigan conditions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  2. SkiSpeed

    SkiSpeed Getting on the lift Skier

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    Brahma 82!
     
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  3. Thread Starter
    TS
    LKLA

    LKLA Out on the slopes Skier

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    And that is what I mainly want the skis for - improving. Sort of taking a step back and solidifying the more basic skills before moving forward. I am not looking to race nor am I likely going to be in two feet of powpow with these skis. Happy to keep them for a couple of season and then move on. :beercheer:
     
  4. Thread Starter
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    LKLA

    LKLA Out on the slopes Skier

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    Yes, it would be same length, 168cm, and similar flex.
     
  5. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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    Do you already have the ski in mind?
     


  6. neonorchid

    neonorchid Out on the slopes Skier

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    ^@trailtrimmer I can see that preference for Latigo your Michigan runs are short, he skis Northern VT, it's not an Apples to Apples comparison.
     
  7. neonorchid

    neonorchid Out on the slopes Skier

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    Agree on 82 waist ski, Brahma 82 may be too stiff for him.
     
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  8. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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    Snow type and firmness wise, it's closer to compare Stowe to Boyne Mountain than to Loveland or Bridger. Michigan has more to offer than a barren wind glazed icy or slushy bump in the region that I live in.

    A 76mm to 82mm ski in the 14 to 18m radius range is simply a hugely versatile groomer ski that can venture off to the side or bumps. My titan was my go to travel ski before I acquired the Latigos, it's as at home at Nubs Nob as it is at Whistler or Lake Louise.
     
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  9. Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    not really. We get over 300 inches a year, with more moisture content falling as snow than Bridger or loveland in an average year.

    The deal is though weekends are quite icey even on "powder" day unless you og off into the woods.
     
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  10. neonorchid

    neonorchid Out on the slopes Skier

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    I forgot about Latigo, thought they were discontinued. That could be a good one for him.
     
  11. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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    We get constant lake effect here with humidity levels over 75% most of the winter. The exact same thing happens, as the fluff quickly compacts and bonds together. We get less overall, but the same type of snow.
     
  12. Wilhelmson

    Wilhelmson Out on the slopes Skier

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    No, our snow is acid snow from the midwest and it roots for the Patriots and embraces all things liberal.
     
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  13. neonorchid

    neonorchid Out on the slopes Skier

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    100% Best Answer!
     
  14. trailtrimmer

    trailtrimmer Stuck in the Flatlands Skier

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    New old stock only on ebay or other sources unfortunately. :( There may be some 170's left, but the 177 and 184's are a memory if one wants a new one.

    :roflmao::roflmao:
     
  15. Corgski

    Corgski Getting on the lift Skier

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    This is my personal approach to test comfort level with various ski widths as a New England intermediate. How are you on one footed uphill little toe traverses on icy hardpack? If you can do that, are you able to complete a turn on that foot starting on that little toe edge? I found attempting those exercises to be very revealing with respect to my boots, ski width and skiing ability in general (not good unfortunately). Actually just putting on your skis at home, standing on one foot on carpet and going through a reasonable angle from edge to edge can provide useful information (please don't damage your knees, carpet or skis). If you are comfortable with all of this on a wider ski great, if not go narrower.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  16. EricG

    EricG Falling Apart Skier

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    173cm Bushwacker (Brahma CA)
     
  17. Tom K.

    Tom K. HRPufnStf Skier

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    A slightly different approach: How consolidated is your base when you receive new snow on top of it?

    If the answer is fully consolidated, I'd personally go with a 78, since I hear the "between storm" conditions on the right coast are at least firm-ish.

    But when skiing on a base that is only sorta kinda consolidated, a 78 can be pretty catchy and higher effort than an 88.

    And like another pugskier said above, don't go too stiff at this point!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  18. Scrundy

    Scrundy I like beer Skier

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    I got a pair probably only 6 days on them 177s. Tried to sell on here but no interest. Never cared for them much but have a buddy that loves them, Very talented skier too. If @LKLA is interested pm me, I’ll treat you good.
     
  19. silverback

    silverback Getting on the lift Skier

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  20. martyg

    martyg Getting off the lift Industry Insider

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    When Jon Seifert was conducting his research into ski width we were communicating on a regular basis, this is the summary that he sent to me, prior to the study being released:

    1. Wide skis resulted in a large range of acceleration in the vertical and longitudinal planes. This would indicate more skidding and vibration with those skis

    2. Wide skis had lower relative forces than the narrow skis due to significantly more skidding and that skiers turned closer to the fall line (more parallel). The skiers arced their turns much more with the narrow skis.

    3. Skiers skied more two-footed on the narrow skis than on the wide skis.

    4. Edge changes were faster with the wide skis. This would indicate less arcing and straighter turns.

    5. In free skiing in the steep runs, edge angles were significantly less with the wide skis. This would indicate that it’s more difficult to get the ski on edge due to a longer lever arm (distance from binding edge to the edge of the ski).

    6. Wide skis result in greater external rotation of the thigh. This may be due to greater overall rotation of the body.

    7. The wide skis force the knee to move more transversally (medial and lateral or inside and outside). This movement along with the rotation creates more torque at the knee.

    For those who say edge to edge is faster on a narrower ski, see point 4. What you are focusing on is the theoretical lever arm, and not how the body interacts with a ski. On a wide ski, on 2D snow (and very few here are heli / cat guides) your turn tends to come from the upper body. Show me someone who regularly skis on 90 + in 2D snow. Video them, and I'll show you someone who initiates with their upper body.

    When you do not ski from your feet you execute big, inefficient movements. You jam from outside ski to outside ski. The consequence of that is that the ski never loads properly, which is why when we design a wider ski, we design it softer (for that reason and others).

    On a narrower ski you have a better opportunity of skiing from your feet - i.e, more efficient. You finish one turn. You go into transition. You are in a place of neutrality - equal weight on both skis. No edging. Every efficient turn executed by a technically proficient skier has this phase - even if you do not see it without slo-mo video.

    When you come out of the point of neutrality part of the process is to progressively weight and pressure that outside ski - just enough so that you bend it. That progression gives you the best opportunity for control throughout the greatest percentage of your turn.

    That process above is why I tend towards a narrower skis. My everyday Western ski is 79 underfoot. I recently purchased a pair of Head Kore 99s. They are a hoot in 3D snow. However I have only skied them maybe 25% of my days since we started seeing 20' - 80" weeks.

    Want more? Look up Jon Seifert's studies. Clinic with Robin Barnes.

    Enjoy.
     
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