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Monique

bounceswoosh
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This makes my Bosu seem much more cost effective ;-)
 

KingGrump

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Question for those who have the skier's edge - how much benefit is there over something like doing back and forth moves on the Bosu?

The Skier's Edge and the Bosu ball work on different things for your skiing. The Bosu ball is more for balance work. The Skier's Edge is more for work on the timing of the turn.

The standard SE with the two separate platform is relatively useless for most more advanced skiers. The two separate foot platforms promotes independent leg action. Most advance skiers are beyond that. The best set up is the mogul/powder platform paired with the trainer bar.

Skier Edge Mogul Platform.jpg

This specific setup allows for work on the leg retraction and extension required during a ski turn. Timing is very critical for this setup. Very similar to the timing required for bump and powder skiing.
There are limitations to this setup. Namely, it only move in two dimensions. The X and Y planes. Side to side and up and down. The fore and aft element of a rounded ski turn is missing. But it's a good setup even with its obvious limitations. Work in incorporating movements in the Z plane is a must out on the hill.

Personally, the slope simulator is not really a tool I would like. I am never one to charge head first down the hill. Not an aggressive skier at all. I do not need to charge down hill. Gravity will accelerate me downward soon enough. Oh yeah, it'll also slow me down. Isn't gravity a wonderful thing. :D
 

wyowindrunner

Getting off the lift
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The standard SE with the two separate platform is relatively useless for most more advanced skiers. The two separate foot platforms promotes independent leg action. Most advance skiers are beyond that. The best set up is the mogul/powder platform paired with the trainer bar.

Didn't invest in the platform- the two plates are adjustable, just moved them to the closest settings. Now that you bring it up, some two inch strap could make a quick conversion. One of the things a user is supposed to concentrate on is keeping the upper body vertical/ centered and articulating at the hips. You can feel the lengthen and shortening of the legs. The guy on the bar looks like he's ready to fall over.
 

KingGrump

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Didn't invest in the platform- the two plates are adjustable, just moved them to the closest settings. Now that you bring it up, some two inch strap could make a quick conversion. One of the things a user is supposed to concentrate on is keeping the upper body vertical/ centered and articulating at the hips. You can feel the lengthen and shortening of the legs. The guy on the bar looks like he's ready to fall over.

The pivot point and of the platform will be not be in unison. Also the powder/mogul platform allows the feet to be closer together. A good thing in bumps and powder.

Agree the guy in the ad pic sucks. The trainer bar is for one to get used to the movement. A stable upper can be promoted by not holding onto the trainer bar. Power is not required for this setup. It really takes good timing, smoothness and finesse. My son used to crank on it when he was 8.
 

wyowindrunner

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Went down to look- a little more complicated than first glance. Had it at the second closest setting. S@53 This is the adjustments on the T5 plates. Sorry. for the incorrect info.


101_0586.JPG 101_0587.JPG
 

PisteOff

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The pivot point and of the platform will be not be in unison. Also the powder/mogul platform allows the feet to be closer together. A good thing in bumps and powder.
Agree the guy in the ad pic sucks. The trainer bar is for one to get used to the movement. A stable upper can be promoted by not holding onto the trainer bar. Power is not required for this setup. It really takes good timing, smoothness and finesse. My son used to crank on it when he was 8.

I use the poles with the footboards on the closest and second closest settings. Keep a calm and upright upper body, weight slightly forward. This trains good separation and angulation while strengthening specific muscle groups. Unlike the Mogul Master, your two feet do not pivot on the same center line nor do they share the same plane while skiing. The idea of them pivoting on the same axis as an accurate representation of what is happening while skiing is kind of silly. The outside leg is always longer than the inside leg. I always thought the mogul master more of a marketing ploy than a serious accessory.
 

KingGrump

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Your two feet do not pivot on the same center line nor do they share the same plane while skiing. The idea of them pivoting on the same axis as an accurate representation of what is happening while skiing is kind of silly. The outside leg is always longer than the inside leg. I always thought the mogul master more of a marketing ploy than a serious accessory.

Bumps and powder will require the legs to match their movements much more closely than groomer skiing.

This is where the MY rubber meets the road.
Kachina Peak, 1,100' vertical - 10 minute laps (including lift ride)

Kachina Peak.jpg


It works.
 

PisteOff

Jeff
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Bumps and powder will require the legs to match their movements much more closely than groomer skiing.you

This is where the MY rubber meets the road.
Kachina Peak, 1,100' vertical - 10 minute laps (including lift ride)

View attachment 33118

It works.
I'm not here to argue with you Grump. Quite the contrary. Basically speaking if you look at the picture you provided only one imaginary ski is even on the ground. Also, you can't get your feet that close together these days on a pair of shaped 80's!! The individual footboards are more realistic. Outside leg longer, feet on separate but parallel planes.

Been there....Unfortunately Peak Lift wasn't running. Did a few laps on 4.

View media item 1899View media item 1902
 

KingGrump

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Basically speaking if you look at the picture you provided only one imaginary ski is even on the ground. Also, you can't get your feet that close together on a pair of shaped 80's!! The individual footboards are more realistic. Outside leg longer, feet on separate but parallel planes.

We are on page 4 so I think we are allowed and due for a bit of thread drift.

Let's agree the model on the sucks. In fact if we look at it closely. I would say there is more weight on his inside foot (right) than his outside foot. Not a good thing.
The model is also using the the trainer bar to strongly stabilize his upper body. In fact he has inhibited the necessary lateral movement of his upper body required to accomplish a good turn. Lost of upper and lower body separation if very evident. His separation is actually more at the level of his pecs. But hey it's a ad. Not real life. Like almost all ski models. They don't ski, they model. That is what they do.

Agree with you that there is still a very large degree of independent leg action while on the mogul/powder setup on the SE unit. Most of the skier's weight is also on the outside foot. What the mogul/powder platform does is allow the really close coordination of both legs and feet. Almost acting in unison as one. The inside leg actively closely mirroring the outside leg. Definitely not two foot skiing. The separation is mostly vertical rather than horizontal. This jives with what I feel in real life skiing. Almost all of the weight on the outside ski. Balance and ride mainly on the outside ski. The inside ski doesn't stray far. In fact, usually it is right there close at the side with very little vertical separation thrown in to balance things out.

I am not a zipper line bumper. Never wanted to be and probably never will. Cool thing to play with once in a while though.
My everyday driver through out the season is either a pair of 88/90 or 100. I have no issues getting them close together for bumps and powder. There is also a vertical separation factor that allows for pretty close horizontal leg/ski spacing. Too much independent ski movement in the bumps and powder leads to no good.
In fact I think I have to work a bit harder to keep them working in unison for powder than I do in bumps.
 

wyowindrunner

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My everyday driver through out the season is either a pair of 88/90 or 100. I have no issues getting them close together for bumps and powder. There is also a vertical separation factor that allows for pretty close horizontal leg/ski spacing. Too much independent ski movement in the bumps and powder leads to no good.
In fact I think I have to work a bit harder to keep them working in unison for powder than I do in bumps.

Remember skiing powder in 66/68 waisted skis? If you didn't ski them as a platform, sooner or later you were doing the dreaded helicopter. Favorite lift game- picking out who was gonna do the one ski spin and dump. Now with FAT skis, stemming intermediates are chewing up powder as fast as the high speed quads can get them up the hill. Do my powder skiing on 100. Powder covered bumps (my idea of heaven) on 96 and shallow powder bumps on 80/85. Two of the greatest things about Targhee is the weekdays are relatively uncrowded and fresh snow is fairly constant. Those uncomfortable in bumps have the exact problem that you describe above, coupled with dropping the hands. The two are a recipe for getting thrown into the back seat and on your butt. ("You're not gonna have a good time").
 

PisteOff

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We are on page 4 so I think we are allowed and due for a bit of thread drift.

Let's agree the model on the sucks. In fact if we look at it closely. I would say there is more weight on his inside foot (right) than his outside foot. Not a good thing.
The model is also using the the trainer bar to strongly stabilize his upper body. In fact he has inhibited the necessary lateral movement of his upper body required to accomplish a good turn. Lost of upper and lower body separation if very evident. His separation is actually more at the level of his pecs. But hey it's a ad. Not real life. Like almost all ski models. They don't ski, they model. That is what they do.

Agree with you that there is still a very large degree of independent leg action while on the mogul/powder setup on the SE unit. Most of the skier's weight is also on the outside foot. What the mogul/powder platform does is allow the really close coordination of both legs and feet. Almost acting in unison as one. The inside leg actively closely mirroring the outside leg. Definitely not two foot skiing. The separation is mostly vertical rather than horizontal. This jives with what I feel in real life skiing. Almost all of the weight on the outside ski. Balance and ride mainly on the outside ski. The inside ski doesn't stray far. In fact, usually it is right there close at the side with very little vertical separation thrown in to balance things out.

I am not a zipper line bumper. Never wanted to be and probably never will. Cool thing to play with once in a while though.
My everyday driver through out the season is either a pair of 88/90 or 100. I have no issues getting them close together for bumps and powder. There is also a vertical separation factor that allows for pretty close horizontal leg/ski spacing. Too much independent ski movement in the bumps and powder leads to no good.
In fact I think I have to work a bit harder to keep them working in unison for powder than I do in bumps.

I'll be the first to admit that bumps and deep powder are the areas I need the most work on. It's more a geographical issue than anything else. They groom everything here minus one small area they hand make "moguls" in. I should've taken a picture of the joke of a bump run they made last year. Only little kids could ski through it. There was no path through or around the ice mounds that a ski longer than 130 could survive without snapping in half. You could almost straight line right over the tops of them.

I've not been fortunate to be out west during a dump. I'm chomping at the bit for this season....... I've a lot of opportunity this winter to get out and I will. I want to get to the point where I can ski pretty much anything without hesitation. I've no interest in sheet of ice steeps, rock gardens, or hucking 60 footers. Personally I don't consider "Getting down" as skiing. There's thousands of youtube videos of people claiming to ski this or that and all it really is is them barely managing to survive getting down it. My goals are fall line orientated......
 

HDSkiing

You’re Sliding On-Snow; Don’t Over-Think it!
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I'll be the first to admit that bumps and deep powder are the areas I need the most work on. It's more a geographical issue than anything else. They groom everything here minus one small area they hand make "moguls" in. I should've taken a picture of the joke of a bump run they made last year. Only little kids could ski through it. There was no path through or around the ice mounds that a ski longer than 130 could survive without snapping in half. You could almost straight line right over the tops of them.

I've not been fortunate to be out west during a dump. I'm chomping at the bit for this season....... I've a lot of opportunity this winter to get out and I will. I want to get to the point where I can ski pretty much anything without hesitation. I've no interest in sheet of ice steeps, rock gardens, or hucking 60 footers. Personally I don't consider "Getting down" as skiing. There's thousands of youtube videos of people claiming to ski this or that and all it really is is them barely managing to survive getting down it. My goals are fall line orientated......

You just need to hurry up and move out here!

I have a Ski Instructor colleague who swears by the Skiers Edge, at least for conditioning. I’ve never tried it but I think it’s like anything you do to prepare for skiing. If you break down what the skiers edge does, and pretty effectively I’m told, it’s not unlike other preseason excercises, there are tons of them online. My favorite and a real killer is the Leg Blaster.

Strength and core training like squats/deadlifts give you a great foundation, but they are concentric excercises, do those in the summer then transition in the fall to more eccentric excecises that closer mimic skiing (think of concentric excercises as the muscles you use to run up a hill, eccentric down it, it’s more about absorbing than extending if that makes sense).

**Full Disclosure, I’m a gym rat yes, but not a personal trainer**

Ultimately it’s about time on snow in the conditions/terrain etc that you want to get better/stronger with but anything you can do to prepare is money in the bank, so whether it’s on the skiers edge or suffering through Leg Blasters, you gotta sweat and be sore afterward, kinda like skiing Kachina Peak then dropping down into Hunziker Bowl nonstop to the liftogsmile

BTW love the pics of Taos!
 

PisteOff

Jeff
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You just need to hurry up and move out here!

I have a Ski Instructor colleague who swears by the Skiers Edge, at least for conditioning. I’ve never tried it but I think it’s like anything you do to prepare for skiing. If you break down what the skiers edge does, and pretty effectively I’m told, it’s not unlike other preseason excercises, there are tons of them online. My favorite and a real killer is the Leg Blaster.

Strength and core training like squats/deadlifts give you a great foundation, but they are concentric excercises, do those in the summer then transition in the fall to more eccentric excecises that closer mimic skiing (think of concentric excercises as the muscles you use to run up a hill, eccentric down it, it’s more about absorbing than extending if that makes sense).

**Full Disclosure, I’m a gym rat yes, but not a personal trainer**

Ultimately it’s about time on snow in the conditions/terrain etc that you want to get better/stronger with but anything you can do to prepare is money in the bank, so whether it’s on the skiers edge or suffering through Leg Blasters, you gotta sweat and be sore afterward, kinda like skiing Kachina Peak then dropping down into Hunziker Bowl nonstop to the liftogsmile

BTW love the pics of Taos!
Yea, I'm actually late to get started conditioning this year. I'm on a long term assignment in Indiana and heading home on weekends to spend some time with the wife and my son. I brought the skiers edge and the balance blocks down to Indiana with me a few weeks back. I have to watch how I work my legs. My quads, glutes, etc mass up good and thick fast and then all my jeans are too damn tight lol.......
 

KingGrump

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I'll be the first to admit that bumps and deep powder are the areas I need the most work on. It's more a geographical issue than anything else. They groom everything here minus one small area they hand make "moguls" in. I should've taken a picture of the joke of a bump run they made last year. Only little kids could ski through it. There was no path through or around the ice mounds that a ski longer than 130 could survive without snapping in half. You could almost straight line right over the tops of them.

I've not been fortunate to be out west during a dump. I'm chomping at the bit for this season....... I've a lot of opportunity this winter to get out and I will. I want to get to the point where I can ski pretty much anything without hesitation. I've no interest in sheet of ice steeps, rock gardens, or hucking 60 footers. Personally I don't consider "Getting down" as skiing. There's thousands of youtube videos of people claiming to ski this or that and all it really is is them barely managing to survive getting down it. My goals are fall line orientated......


Funny thing about you thinking the mogul setup is a marketing ploy. That's what I thought initially. I bought the machine more than 10 years ago. I had it set up with the twin foot platform along one of the back wall in the conference room. All the visitors would hop on it and give it a go. They all usually have a good time at it. A really good ice breaker.

One day I went and swap out the twin foot platform with the mogul platform. Two guys (both about #250+) hopped on the unit for a spin. They couldn't get it going at all. They were really perplexed. They said they had no issues hammering it couple week prior.

I told them I changed the platform. The new platform requires a different balance and timing in order for it to work properly. I got on and gave them a demo. They tried again and still no luck.

I then explained to them it's all feel and timing and not brute force. They didn't believe me. I call my son (then 8 years old) in to the conference room and had him hop onto the SE. He wasn't tall enough to use the trainer bar so he hop on to the unit with his back to the training bar. He just cranked away at it without holding onto anything. They were amazed.
I told them all we had to do is incorporate some fore and aft movement to that and we are all set for bumps and powder.

There is definitely something about the mogul platform setup. If you can find someone with that setup. Give it a try.

I hear you about the dearth of terrain in some regions. I recall you mention about looking at Lake Tahoe area for the long haul. Spent a season at Squaw in 2012. Nice area. Good luck in your search.

If you happen to be in the Taos area, give me a shout. I'll there both Jan & Feb. Otherwise I'll catch you at the gathering for some turns.
 

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