3* is a LOT and quite frankly very unusual to be that much and the same in both legs. If I see a case like this, I will step back and see what else is could be going on.
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53’s Journey
- Thread starter Started at 53
- Start date
They didn't have to look closely, 3* is obvious in walking or standing let alone in ski boots. Unfortunately, instructors arn't taught to recognize even the most basic alignment issues but are trained to do assembly line work where all the parts are assumed to be identical but the reality is that the parts are all different. Either a little different so that the parts go together and more or less work or a lot different so that the parts have to be forced together and they never work as they should.
Phil is also spot on to question if there isn't some other issue because; "Three fricking degrees and nobody saw that?"
uke
As another person who started skiing at 53, I can say definitively that I was not taken seriously by highly recommended bootfitters. One after another profiled me wrong and put me into boots too long, too wide, and too high despite my saying I wanted a performance fit and that I was interested in becoming proficient in skiing. I went through 5 pairs of boots before someone did take me seriously and explained to me what I needed in a boot.
I figured this happened to me mostly because I was a beginner female, but being a 53 year old beginner probably played a big part as well. Maybe people saw 53's leg issue but chose to not mention it because they profiled a 53YO beginner in a certain way. 53, do you think this is possible?
I figured this happened to me mostly because I was a beginner female, but being a 53 year old beginner probably played a big part as well. Maybe people saw 53's leg issue but chose to not mention it because they profiled a 53YO beginner in a certain way. 53, do you think this is possible?
Looking forward to reading about your progress this season @Started at 53 !
When do you think you will first get on snow?
When do you think you will first get on snow?
I started skiing at 50. After a few years of renting, my first boot was a Lange RX 100 that was too wide, too long, and too soft, but there was limited stock in 31.5. I sold that boot and my first skis at a swap and used the money towards new boots. The fitter said I needed 29.5-30.5 depending on the boot and a higher flex, but they didn't stock these sizes in many boots.. Long story short, they had to order me an RS 130 in 30.5 to get LV, but I needed a few punches and grinds to open up the toe box. If I didn't have such big narrow feet, and wasn't stubborn after the first boot experience, I might have ended up in another wrong boot. I love my RS 130's!
It's interesting to hear about your issues, 53. Last year I took my boots to Northern Ski Works for an another toe box adjustment while at Killington (not where they were purchased), and the fitter (not Hal) said one boot was not aligned properly (not sure the right term) and used a pressure pad sensor to show me. He fixed it (not sure how), but I can't say it was that noticeable when skiing. That probably says more about my skiing then the adjustment.
Thread Starter
TS
I suppose it’s possible. To be honest it’s in the past, I just deal with things going forward and I think I’m in a good place equipment-wise
I know for a fact that my first skiing will be first tracks on December 10th
I get home from work in the 9th
I'm going into my 6th season. I taught at Butternut for 3 seasons and noone said anything about my stance issue. Maybe they didn't notice, not sure. 2 training days when I started teaching in Vermont last season and I was pulled aside and told to stand on this balance thing. Pardon the terminology I'm about to use but here goes. I had major issues with my feet/boots and canting needed to be adjusted big time. I went to see my boot fitter and told him what they found. Nick had some some adjustments in this fashion but I'm not sure he realized how extreme it was because he didn't ski with me like my Bromley trainers. He made a permanent adjustment to the canting in my right boot and OMG, took a couple runs but GAME CHANGER on many levels. I'm pretty positive this is why I feel like I had a great season last year. Happy you got things fixed @Started at 53, I wish for a fabulous season for you. I bet you'll be blown away at the difference.
Thread Starter
TS
Only if you have your grass skis.
I had a similar situation when I started teaching. The training directors were a husband and wife team. He would say, “I’d like to see your stance wider.” She would say “you need to get your boots fixed” without telling me what she saw that needed fixing. I replaced my off-the-shelf heat molded footbeds with a custom footbed. Later I’m at a clinic and the clinic leader mentioned it didn’t look like I was really edging much. Finally make an appt with a real bootfitter, who notes how bowlegged I was and as the cuff alignment adjustment was limited on my Full Tilts, he planed the soles by 2* on the left boot and 3* on the right. I had the toe pieces remounted to lift them and get the binding delta zeroed. Much better skiing, though another year or three of skiing and I came to the conclusion I had too much forward lean with my boots.
Finally new boots (Tecnicas) last year, under the guidance of my bootfitter (Jim Mates in Seattle, in case you’re interested) that are a better shell fit, better stance, better aligned (and therefore only needed a 2* Cantalogy set on the right boot and none on the left). So much better experience skiing, and also much easier to apply feedback in technique.
The point is, instructors are not trained to see this, or to verbalize what it is they see. They are looking for ski-snow interactions, as they should, and if they’re good they also provide feedback on what body movement changes would improve control over the ski-snow interactions. They are not well versed in the myriad of ways the equipment set up can be less-than optimal, particularly boots.
Jim Mates mentioned to me that he knew of only one instructor/clinician in the area (PNW) who assessed participants’ boot fit and alignment before a clinic, Gavin Kerr Hunter who owns Snowperformance. I haven’t taken clinics or camps from them yet; it’s on my to-do list and I know Level 2’s and 3’s that take clinics with them.
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Sadly, not yet.
Jay, I have to say, I’d love the chance to ski with you some time. It’s really cool to see you progress, and to make skiing a big part of your life.
Thread Starter
TS
Let me know when you’re at Deer Valley and we can do it
Interestingly, in my ski school and in my personal skiing experience, I have found that a number of the long time instructors absolutely give feedback and advice about equipment - boots in particular. In fact, a few will do some individual boot fitting during or after a lesson when they see issues that are holding a student back.
But I don't see this happening with newer or younger instructors. I'm wondering if it's something that's been lost over the years. ??? Or fallen out of favor ???
But I don't see this happening with newer or younger instructors. I'm wondering if it's something that's been lost over the years. ??? Or fallen out of favor ???
My experience with lessons is that I did not get comments on boots/gear/etc unless I specifically brought it up. Never did I hear anything from an instructor regarding my rental boots for the first ~15 years of my ski life. That or I simply waved them off since I did not intend to buy boots/skis/etc as a tourist.
When I have brought up gear questions in lessons in the past few years, the comments I received were always helpful. I think the typical beginner/intermediate recreational skier simply does not care to exert the energy to understand the gear complexities or even know what questions to ask. So I wouldn't necessarily fault the instructor for not getting technical on gear without the student specifically guiding the conversation that way. If the instructor starts blaming the gear, then the student may think the whole lesson was pointless and give a bad tip. He/she needs the tip money for the bootfitter!
The only multi-day ski camp/lesson I have done was actually at Deer Valley and did include some lectures regarding gear. This was the Mahre Training Center course. Honestly I skipped the gear lecture bits because I thought it was a marketing ploy/cash grab. Plus I had rental boots, so why should I care? Looking back, I'm sure there was some good discussion/content there, but I just wasn't ready to learn about it.
When I have brought up gear questions in lessons in the past few years, the comments I received were always helpful. I think the typical beginner/intermediate recreational skier simply does not care to exert the energy to understand the gear complexities or even know what questions to ask. So I wouldn't necessarily fault the instructor for not getting technical on gear without the student specifically guiding the conversation that way. If the instructor starts blaming the gear, then the student may think the whole lesson was pointless and give a bad tip. He/she needs the tip money for the bootfitter!
The only multi-day ski camp/lesson I have done was actually at Deer Valley and did include some lectures regarding gear. This was the Mahre Training Center course. Honestly I skipped the gear lecture bits because I thought it was a marketing ploy/cash grab. Plus I had rental boots, so why should I care? Looking back, I'm sure there was some good discussion/content there, but I just wasn't ready to learn about it.
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I haven't taken any lessons in the past 15 years, maybe it's time to do some again. I took lessons initially (1968-1970) and had some informal lessons from skiers who were better than I. I'm pretty sure I have some bad habits to break and some new things to try.
One of the things I will do with students is to teach them how to buckle boots and cinch up the power strap so they can effectively transmit foot and leg movements to the boot and hence the ski. Most of the time the response is, wow, such a simple thing and yet they feel better control of their skis. Then I point them towards a boot fitter and recommend the get good fitting foot beds.
This was me with my first pair of boots. Bought them basically off the shelf at a local store not knowing a thing, and then when we went to see a boot-fitter about our ill-fitting boots, Mark got new boots and guy made a few adjustments to my 100 last boots (and I have very narrow feet). His whole mentality was wait until I get better to invest in new boots, so I spent a whole other year cranking down the buckles to try and stop the movement in the boot. Needless to say, I didn't go back there once I got "better."
These last several posts make you realize that not all instructors and boot fitters are created equal. The often given advice to seek their services should come with the caveat of verifying their expertise before trusting them with your advancement.
Wisdom often comes with age. Not to all, just some.