• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
Listen to chris V and book him on a lesson. he knows whathe is talking about.
 
Last edited:

Erik Timmerman

So much better than a pro
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,303
As a point of reference, I was mogul skiing today with a guy who has 15 days total. I've taught him 4 days and most of the days he has been over-terraining himself with his buddies in Utah.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
I am speaking as another skier who started skiing at 53, and then became an instructor my fourth year. I've now had 14 years on snow total. I have come to the conclusion that there is no "certain order" in which things come together for late bloomers like @Started at 53 and me. Each new skier is different. An instructor doesn't know what the next beginner will be able to do on day one, and what will take weeks or months to learn. Epic's student is a case in point. I watched a new LIII instructor take a group of 5 Navy Seals for the day. They had never been skiing, and by the end of the day they were skiing big moguls, fast. Prior experience counts a ton, as does youth :cool:.

@Chris V. has identified a ton of important and unfamiliar things every newbie needs to learn. But for just about everybody, these things come one at a time. They might get bundled together if the skier works with an instructor who can figure out how to effectively teach two-to-three of those important things all at once to that particular person. This takes insight and experience on the part of the instructor, along with a good reading of the student. (Unless we're talking about vigorous young athletes.)

Skiing with a rigid body cancels out the possibility of learning anything new, or of even trying anything new. My advice to @Started at 53, who is like I was, is to dance, wiggle your butt, pat your head and rub your tummy, flap your arms like wings, get low and stand tall, hop, shuffle, step, MARCH to a tune sung in your head, and do all these things while making turns on really flat terrain. Yes, all of them. More than once, more than one run, often, every ski day. Do these things while making the same smooth turns you are making right now, but on the flattest terrain you can find.

Why? To learn that you can continue to make decent turns while doing new movements. Yes, you can stay balanced while flapping your wings, or marching; try it.

Once that confidence is built, then experimenting with any new movement pattern an instructor asks you to try becomes easy.
 
Last edited:

HardDaysNight

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
1,342
Location
Park City, UT
This is one of those topics on which the instructor furnishes the introduction, and the student figures out a lot more for himself. I believe ski instruction is like that. Students figure out about 95% of it on their own. And they have to--there's so much. Instructors teach only 5%. But that 5% is pure gold. Choose wisely.

Very true. To use an analogy which 53, being a golfer, will appreciate, Ben Hogan once said that great players dig their swings out of the dirt. That is, they learn what works and why through experience and practice. True in skiing too. A good instructor can, however, help a student figure out where it might be most productive to dig, equip him with a set of tools that facilitate digging and preview what the results might look like!
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,534
LF said.
My advice to 53, who is like I was, is to dance, wiggle your butt, pat your head and rub your tummy, flap your arms like wings, get low and stand tall, hop, shuffle, step, MARCH to a tune sung in your head, and do all these things while making turns on really flat terrain. Yes, all of them. More than once. While making the same turns you are making right now, but on the flattest terrain serviced by a chair lift.

That's great advice. More than you know. Most skiers are static, even good ones. Listen to your favorite music and dance to it on your skis. Use only one ear bud please.
 

Fuller

Semi Local
Skier
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Posts
1,522
Location
Whitefish or Florida
Skiing with a rigid body cancels out the possibility of learning anything new,

Yes, our older more experienced brains have been trained not to do foolish things like throwing oneself down the mountain. That rigid stance (and I would argue not keeping the feet together) is all about self preservation at an unconscious level, whatever it takes to erase it will be the turning point to effective skiing. The sooner you can do it the easier the journey will be.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Started at 53

Started at 53

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Posts
2,129
Location
Not Ikon, UT
^^^Great post. Agree with all of it! I haven’t been watching this thread so I hope 53 doesn’t mind my asking how many days on snow he’s had and how much instruction. No ulterior motive, just interest.

Since a few days prior to Christmas ‘15, I have about 20 days on skis. I have only taken private lessons and have done so about 6 days. This past Thursday I had a lesson with a guy I really connected with, he helped me a lot. I will take lessons from him going forward.

Today was a bad day in that the mountain was PACKED full of skiers on the green runs. I failed to adjust and move to the blue runs as I should have to avoid the massive crowds. There was a bit of spring brake going on, so a lot of teenagers out of control. I nearly got taken out but a wedging straight liner. Snow was hard/icy this morning, I was really concentrating on moving my COM forward and edging my turns. Today was a move forward, Friday I saw no impovement after the breakthrough lesson day. Today I felt very good in the improvement made even though I was in avoidance mode 80% of the time. The skiing was not great, and we all headed to the Stag Lodge and hung out so no a lot of vertical or mileage today. The afternoon things warmed up and it was mashed potatoes which was a very different thing for me.

Two more days of skiing on this trip. Gonna just ski blues tomorrow unless the traffic is much lighter tomorrow.

Thanks for all of the tips!
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Spring skiing goes from impenetrable ice to glop pretty fast on warm days. Ahhh the love of spring skiing! How'd you like those mashed potatoes?
Glop like that is a great teacher because it tells us immediately if it doesn't like what we are doing with our skis.
 

Bolder

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Posts
486
Respectfully, I disagree. Flexion and extension is something I like to start practicing early, early, early, maybe the afternoon of the first day on skis. I don't mean that I'll try to instill some precise flexion and extension pattern through the turn cycle. It starts with simply learning to make adjustments to small terrain variations. It's a great habit to get into. And not hard, at the introductory level. This is one of those topics on which the instructor furnishes the introduction, and the student figures out a lot more for himself. I believe ski instruction is like that. Students figure out about 95% of it on their own. And they have to--there's so much. Instructors teach only 5%. But that 5% is pure gold. Choose wisely.

This ties in strongly to terrain based teaching, which is THE BEST THING EVER.

Upper-lower body separation is fundamental. Good introductory lessons get a student stable and balanced. 53 is stable and balanced. What are you going to work on next? :)

You're absolutely right. However, while I am staying VERY far away from my wife's learning journey, I can see that adding flexion/extension to the equation at this point is a no go. She is of an analytical bent when it comes to learning, and wants to start from the bottom up rather than a holistic approach. In theory, it should be "not hard," as you say, to incorporate terrain absorption. But I think the reality for many older beginners is different.

As a counterpoint, I offer my brother's girlfriend, let's call her "started at 37," who after 3 lessons was skiing European red runs, making parallel turns and generally making the rest of us look bad! She got the extension patterns right away.

Bottom line is that each adult learner learns in his or her own way, and they have to take lessons in a way that makes them comfortable. My wife, whom I love dearly, would not be comfortable with an instructor who pushed her hard. Whereas with kids, you just tell them "do what I do" (for the most part!) and they'll do it.
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,768
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
I have snowboarded for years and screwed around on ski blades for a few years after that. I've been on longer skis since 2013 so I guess you could say I 'started at 42'. I do know that then til now has produced an entirely different skier as each year I evolve. Hell I just skied with someone in Tahoe 3 days ago that gave me some game changing tips regarding poling position and skiing in trees. If someone had told me multiple paragraphs of things to work on it right when I first started it would have gone right over my head. All the advice above is fabulous and super helpful however, if Started at 53 is anything like me than what he needs is time, lessons, patience, more lessons and just frankly mileage. I think much of what was mentioned will come over time with lessons and practice and more practice. Keep it up as I think you are off to a rockin start.
 

Chris V.

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Posts
1,366
Location
Truckee
If someone had told me multiple paragraphs of things to work on it right when I first started it would have gone right over my head. All the advice above is fabulous and super helpful however, if Started at 53 is anything like me than what he needs is time, lessons, patience, more lessons and just frankly mileage.

Sure, I don't disagree, one step at a time. I don't mean go out and do everything I say the first morning. Maybe helpful to have a road map though. Everyone learns at a different pace. Find your own. Above all, have fun with it. That's the whole point, isn't it? The one thing I DO like to see in every student is practicing good movement patterns, starting at the most elementary level. No dead end or counterproductive pathways, please!
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,768
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
Sure, I don't disagree, one step at a time. I don't mean go out and do everything I say the first morning. Maybe helpful to have a road map though. Everyone learns at a different pace. Find your own. Above all, have fun with it. That's the whole point, isn't it? The one thing I DO like to see in every student is practicing good movement patterns, starting at the most elementary level. No dead end or counterproductive pathways, please!

:thumb:
 
Thread Starter
TS
Started at 53

Started at 53

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Posts
2,129
Location
Not Ikon, UT
Turns out today was my last ski day of the year. In a nutshell I sucked today. Conditions were not great as the snow quality varied greatly not just from run to run, but within the same run. It was warm the past two days and there were a lot of mashed potatoes in some areas.

Yesterday was actually scary as there were a lot of out of control skiers, yeah one nearly took me out. As @Lorenzzo told me today at lunch, I ski slow for my ability. But.... I ski in total control speed wise.

Today I had moments of good skiing, as in 5 good turns followed by 3 bad turns, followed by...... I was just very inconsistent. It was disappointing to say the least.

Today was also a serous reminder of the danger of our sport, I saw two large areas of blood on different runs, I saw (from a lift) a person right after they hit a tree and were not moving at all, I witnessed one life flight and heard there was another at DV today. We, as in DV, had a fatality a couple days ago, and possibly two today. I post this as there were a lot of out of control skiers out there, so as a public service announcement.... BE CAREFUL out there.

Thanks to @Chris V. for your tip, you and others ( @LiquidFeet ) have given me some great stuff to start next seasons skiing. Chris, I did do some singing on the slopes today and was swinging my arms about like a guy who has lost his marbles.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
Turns out today was my last ski day of the year. In a nutshell I sucked today. Conditions were not great as the snow quality varied greatly not just from run to run, but within the same run. It was warm the past two days and there were a lot of mashed potatoes in some areas.

Yesterday was actually scary as there were a lot of out of control skiers, yeah one nearly took me out. As @Lorenzzo told me today at lunch, I ski slow for my ability. But.... I ski in total control speed wise.

Today I had moments of good skiing, as in 5 good turns followed by 3 bad turns, followed by...... I was just very inconsistent. It was disappointing to say the least.

Today was also a serous reminder of the danger of our sport, I saw two large areas of blood on different runs, I saw (from a lift) a person right after they hit a tree and were not moving at all, I witnessed one life flight and heard there was another at DV today. We, as in DV, had a fatality a couple days ago, and possibly two today. I post this as there were a lot of out of control skiers out there, so as a public service announcement.... BE CAREFUL out there.

Thanks to @Chris V. for your tip, you and others ( @LiquidFeet ) have given me some great stuff to start next seasons skiing. Chris, I did do some singing on the slopes today and was swinging my arms about like a guy who has lost his marbles.

Spring conditions are extremely challenging, even for pretty experienced skiers. Blowing out my knee was directly related to the springtime "snow is different at different places on the run" issue (as well as a good helping of hubris). So - DO NOT evaluate your skill, especially at this point in your skiing, by how you ski spring conditions! And especially during spring break. Dodging out of control skiers doesn't make anyone's turns prettier.
 

Chris V.

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Posts
1,366
Location
Truckee
Conditions were not great as the snow quality varied greatly not just from run to run, but within the same run. It was warm the past two days and there were a lot of mashed potatoes in some areas.

Been there, done that. Maybe very recently.

I did do some singing on the slopes today and was swinging my arms about like a guy who has lost his marbles.

Love it!
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,768
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
Spring conditions are extremely challenging, even for pretty experienced skiers. So - DO NOT evaluate your skill, especially at this point in your skiing, by how you ski spring conditions! And especially during spring break. Dodging out of control skiers doesn't make anyone's turns prettier.

This, exactly this.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top