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30 for 30- Lance Armstrong interview.

James

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Everyone wants and expects more from pro athletes but everyone seems so surprised when someone gets caught "cheating".
It’s not so much the cheating. It’s the vehemence against others that he pursued relentlessly. Then it turns out they were right and he was lying. Has he done anything on that front to make up for it? Maybe he has, I don’t know. Without that, everything else is pretty hollow.
The whole 30 for 30 thing is like Bro justification.
 

Wasatchman

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It’s not so much the cheating. It’s the vehemence against others that he pursued relentlessly. Then it turns out they were right and he was lying. Has he done anything on that front to make up for it? Maybe he has, I don’t know. Without that, everything else is pretty hollow.
The whole 30 for 30 thing is like Bro justification.
For me the cheating is also a big issue. I fear we have a win at all costs culture and I get disappointed when someone gets caught cheating it is oh well, they were still great. They get to keep a lot of the money. This only perpetuates the incentive to cheat and win at all costs whether it be sports or business. I'm not on board with it.
 

fatbob

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It’s not so much the cheating. It’s the vehemence against others that he pursued relentlessly. Then it turns out they were right and he was lying. Has he done anything on that front to make up for it? Maybe he has, I don’t know. Without that, everything else is pretty hollow.
The whole 30 for 30 thing is like Bro justification.

I think Lance has played it fairly smart with his notoriety. Parlayed the confessional in the most self serving way possible , then kept a relatively low profile while still always being a "presence". So anything now will take the air of nostalgia/ the past is done and he can reposition his legacy in terms of the highs of his achievements in a 100% dirty sport.

I'm conflicted, I think anyone who has ever followed pro cycling is. I don't think cheating should be rewarded in any way but at the same time some rides - Landis at AdH, Pantani on the Galibier were just thrilling sporting moments even though you knew they weren't really possible.
 
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Ron

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It’s not so much the cheating. It’s the vehemence against others that he pursued relentlessly. Then it turns out they were right and he was lying. Has he done anything on that front to make up for it? Maybe he has, I don’t know. Without that, everything else is pretty hollow.
The whole 30 for 30 thing is like Bro justification.

I wasn't talking about Lance. I totally agree in general but I think the program was excellent and was certainly not a white-wash of any semblance. they did a good job of providing different perspectives without shading any position.
 

Bill Talbot

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The bottom line of the un-said has always been during my lifetime "Do whatever you need to do to come out on top but if you get caught we don't know you". Applies to many areas and very sadly and predictably has gotten us to where we are now. Ours is a morally bankrupt society as a whole.
 
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Ron

Ron

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The bottom line of the un-said has always been during my lifetime "Do whatever you need to do to come out on top but if you get caught we don't know you". Applies to many areas and very sadly and predictably has gotten us to where we are now. Ours is a morally bankrupt society as a whole.

to your point, in the program , it discusses that it was only when the USPS ran out of money for its programs did they consider suing Lance. At that point, there were already numerous allegations of doping and they had not pursued him up to that point
 

Ken_R

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The bottom line of the un-said has always been during my lifetime "Do whatever you need to do to come out on top but if you get caught we don't know you". Applies to many areas and very sadly and predictably has gotten us to where we are now. Ours is a morally bankrupt society as a whole.

I dont do that, I still have a moral compass so maybe that is why I am not very rich. I just can't throw it all out just to be financially very successful. :huh:
 
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Ron

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I dont do that, I still have a moral compass so maybe that is why I am not very rich. I just can't throw it all out just to be financially very successful. :huh:

you can be financially successful and be honest. In fact, I believe its much easier.
 

Bill Talbot

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you can be financially successful and be honest. In fact, I believe its much easier.

I'm not sure it is much easier because the 'other side' is looking after it's interest. It certainly is a fight worth pursuing though. I was just talking about the underlying currents that are felt in so very many areas. Absolutely not condoning them.
 
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Ron

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its easier because you never have to worry about what you said or did to a customer/client. Being totally up front and open makes it easy to do business with honest people. I never wasted time with dishonest clients or those who didnt want to work in a honest manner. Bad customers take away time from time spent getting new clients or taking care of good customers. It was my mantra and it worked very well. Not every person is your customer so dont waste time trying to make those people who aren't a good fit into a customer that won't last or appreciate your services
 

Ken_R

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you can be financially successful and be honest. In fact, I believe its much easier.

Yes, up to a point for most people.

I definitely always have steered well away from shady people.
 

cantunamunch

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James

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Bruuuce

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Armstrong went out of his way to destroy anyone in his path. Period.

Watch the Oprah "confession" and you'll see that he wouldn't even acknowledge that the Andreus were telling the truth the whole time. It almost seemed like he took pleasure in destroying those who dared to question him.

No respect. Ever.
 

cantunamunch

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Armstrong went out of his way to destroy anyone in his path. Period.
.... It almost seemed like he took pleasure in destroying those who dared to question him.

Pop over to Amazon Prime and watch the doc "There are No Fakes".


You can read it as having exactly the same dynamic as the Armstrong saga - except with Norval Morrisseau paintings. Complete with a blatantly obvious level of fakery, successful character assassination, shush lawsuits and massive ego trips. The part of SCA Promotions will be played by Kevin Hearn of BNL.
 

Gary Stolt

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Armstrong was a great athlete. His biggest crime was 1) being good at cheating/doping and 2) winning. If he never won the Tour, he would not be in the news. Without Lance, the next best cheater/winner would be in the news. The controlling body was not good enough to catch him or others - or perhaps they did not really want to catch him and the rest and consequently tarnish their sport and their own image.
I'm not here to defend Armstrong or Cheating - just looking at this objectively.
 

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