3* Vs 4* Side Edge

Discussion in 'Tuning Techniques and Tool Information' started by L&AirC, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. L&AirC

    L&AirC PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach Skier

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    I have the Razor Tune and the kit to do pretty much an angle I would like. Since I'm on the ice coast, and normally ski a 3* side, I planning on going to 4*, at least on my SL skis.

    Was going to see how this goes and possibly move it to my GS skis.

    I'm not concerned about going through metal quicker and shortening the skis life. I'm fortunate to be an Ambassador for Elan so I have plenty of skis and usually get a new pair of something or another every season.

    Yesterday all the steep trails were porcelain and ice. My skis weren't freshly sharpened but only had one day of skiing on them and held pretty good. I was thinking though the with a more aggressive side edge, I would have a more aggressive hold and since I have the abilities to change it, why not give it a wing.

    Any reasons that I shouldn't want to do this?

    Ken
     
  2. Josh Matta

    Josh Matta Making fresh tracks Instructor

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    Id say go for it. The amount of wear from higher angle usually doesnt really kill a ski faster than the amount of times it flexed.
     
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  3. RuleMiHa

    RuleMiHa Getting off the lift Skier

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  4. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

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    4 on the SLs. Do it.
     
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  5. Primoz

    Primoz Out on the slopes Skier

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    Just one... sharp edges last a bit less with 4 then they do with 3. But realistically, you should easily get through the day of skiing even with 4deg. And after day it's time to get them sharp anyway, regardless if they are 3deg or 4deg.
     
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  6. Jacques

    Jacques Workin' It on Skis Best I Can Skier

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    I ski some pairs with a 4 degree side. Get them up on edge and they are good. I say go for it, then you will see. A bit easier to catch an edge in cut up conditions.
     
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  7. ScottB

    ScottB Getting off the lift Skier

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    I run both 3 deg and 4 deg side bevels on my skis. The race skis and front side skis have 4 and the wider ones have 3 deg. I am a big guy and the 4 deg gives me better grip, which I can never get too much off. The only negative I have found is with the 4 deg skis, on certain surfaces the skis will hold, then let go, then grab again, repeat sequence. On the 3 deg skis, they just let go and slide a little bit.
     
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  8. Thread Starter
    TS
    L&AirC

    L&AirC PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach Skier

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    Sharpening daily isn’t an issue as I typically do any way.
     
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  9. Dwight

    Dwight Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid Admin Moderator

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    I wouldn't do it.





    Just kidding, have fun.
     
  10. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Just go for it, you could always stone the edge at 3.
    Lol, you don't know how many people might get their skis sharpened once or twice a year.
     
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  11. BGreen

    BGreen Out on the slopes Skier

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    In general I would recommend against it. Some skis have a steel composition that can take a 4 degree edge, most don’t. You will have razor sharp edges for five runs and then they will be noticeably dull. If your skis can legitimately take a 4 degree edge or you only ski about five runs on a pair of skis (pretty typical training session), go for it. I would use a five degree file guide and a good file to set the angle and then use the Razor Tune at 4 degrees. It will go much faster.

    That’s a boot alignment problem. Move your cuffs in.
     
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  12. Thread Starter
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    L&AirC

    L&AirC PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach Skier

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    Thanks for this. Something to consider. I think I'm going to give it a wing and see what happens. The SL skis I'm going to do this on first are my coaching skis. Each run I'm not on my edges as we might be doing something else like pivot slips. I have a couple pair of skis I can do this to so if it becomes an issue, I can switch them out.

    One of my issues is every now and again I go down a trail for the first time that day and see boiler plate ice that I didn't know was there and I'm now committed to it. Yesterday it happened to me with a bundle of GS gates on my shoulder and a drill in my other hand. I came over a knoll making a left footer and on the other side was a 50' wide patch of ice about 25' long and I was right in the middle. This was polished ice from the rain the other night that for some reason hadn't been groomed out. All was fine but it did take a bit for my butt to unpucker.

    On my GS race skis, I tend to only get 3 or 4 runs tops (ARL) and then it's time to pack up.
     
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  13. Thread Starter
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    L&AirC

    L&AirC PSIA Instructor and USSA Coach Skier

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    I found out Saturday night that one of the parents of an athlete I coach was tuning the athlete's skis in the training center. He was using a file on the edges "FREE HAND" :eek:. This is after I talked to all the parents and sent them a step by step manual on how to tune skis for the athletes.
     
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  14. BGreen

    BGreen Out on the slopes Skier

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    @L&AirC if 4 doesn’t work, try 3.5. Just use a credit card or stiff plastic to shim it between the angle plate and the razor tune. Measure and do a little math to confirm. That works the best for me, my needs, my skis (Nordica). It’s a lot sharper than 3 and a lot more durable than 4 in my experience. Don’t fall on a drill. They don’t feel good, and plastic bits don’t like it.
     
  15. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Well i'v seen a high school coach of a good team base filing some of the kids skis between runs with the ski's tail stuck in the snow to hold it. Just holding a big file and bending it, Most of the good kids had already been warned not to let him touch their edges. That was prob 8-10 yrs ago.
     
  16. Chris Geib

    Chris Geib cgeib Skier

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    I suppose it's possible, but seems optimistic :P
     
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  17. Atomicman

    Atomicman Getting on the lift Skier

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    My slaloms are at 4 degrees. You'll love it!

    The idea that a more acute edge angle does not stay sharp as long, is an old wives tail with no evidence of it being the case. Don't believe me, than how about SkiMD, Mike DeSantis, from his website:


    "Never let anyone try to convince you that this is too radical, or that it gets duller quicker. No information exists to support that theory. The difference in material removal between a 3 or 4 degree side edge angle is truly minimal over a side edge height of 2-2.5 millimeters. However, the difference in performance when asking your skis to do what you want is profound."

    Mike's Credentials:

    Graduate Stratton Mountain Ski Academy - 1979 - NCAA competitor UVM Ski Team
    - Physical Education Degree UVM - 1984
    - 7 years World Cup Technician/WC Race Director for Volkl
    - 4 years Product Development Manager for Volkl
    - Member Volkl International Test Team
    - Lifetime Achievement Award for excellence in the fields of World Cup Service and Product Development for Volkl Skis
    - Technical service consultant for Volkl, Blizzard, Dynastar and Elan skis

    Mike created his own proprietary finishes for top athletes such as Hilary Lindh, the '97 DH World Champion. Kate Pace, the '93 DH World Champion. Katja Seizinger, the overall World Cup women’s downhill winner many seasons over. Other athletes include Picabo Street, Kristina Koznick, Heidi Voelker, and former U.S. Snowboarding Team athlete Rosy Fletcher, Olympic Bronze medalist. Working in tandem with Volkl Germany, allowed Mike access to some of the very best factory technicians in the world. Combined with his deep factory knowledge of ski design and construction, the foundation was built to create a system that has demonstrated a broad level of success. This is what truly differentiates SkiMD from all the rest.

     
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  18. Atomicman

    Atomicman Getting on the lift Skier

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    What SL or GS ski would not be able to take a 4 degree due to it's....ahhh....."Steel Composition"? :rolleyes: or any other ski for that matter?
     
  19. BGreen

    BGreen Out on the slopes Skier

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    I thought I was pretty clear on that. I’m not sure what you are trying to prove. I’m just sharing experience. Obviously snow conditions play a big role in how long edges stay sharp. Injected surfaces are more aggressive than natural snow.
     
  20. Atomicman

    Atomicman Getting on the lift Skier

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    Clear as a flat light day in the PNW. :roflmao:

    I thought IT was pretty clear what I was trying to prove. Few if anyone here is skiing on injected snow, so I don't see how that is germane to the discussion.

    You didn't mention snow conditions...... ....you simply said more acute angles = shorter sharpness duration.........My apologies if I was not clear.............BULL!
     

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