3 Ski Quivers. What is your optimal ski selection?

[Guy in Shorts]

Not my quiver I’m afraid, just my inspiration!!!

I have bought/sold 22 pairs of skis in the last 5 years but only keep 4-6 pairs in any quiver and sell the ones I don’t love. I always get them on huge deals and can flip them easily if I don’t love them-many times making money selling them.
I current have just 5 pairs on the go right now like some sort of rookie.......

What is your optimal 3 ski quiver? Appears you have been on wide selection of candidates.

 

[KingGrump]

So, same question I asked him: How to decide which pair to use? And how many times a day to make a change?

The 14 pair guy seemed to spend more time at his truck than on the slopes.

Looks like there is a meme on your 14 pair friend.



Some skiers are more into the romance of skiing. Some are into bragging rights. Some are just plain old Golilocks, never happy.

 

[Noodler]

Specific skis aside, I have put a lot of thought into quiver building. Some would say probably way too much thought (especially my wife).

I believe that skis fall into 5 categories:

1. Hard-Pack: 65-75mm waist, 12-14m SR, 165-170cm, 1100-1300 cm^2 area
   
2. All-Mountain Narrow: 75-85mm waist, 14-16m SR, 170-175cm, 1300-1500 cm^2 area
   
3. All-Mountain Regular: 85-95mm waist, 16-18m SR, 175-180cm, 1500-1700 cm^2 area
   
4. All-Mountain Wide: 95-105mm waist, 18-20m SR, 180-185cm, 1700-1900 cm^2 area
   
5. Deep-Snow: 105-115mm waist, 20-22m SR, 185-190cm, 1900-2100 cm^2 area

The 3 ski quiver should pick a Hard-Pack, All-Mountain Regular, and Deep-Snow ski. Here in the West, I ski a 4 ski quiver, so I add the All-Mountain Wide to my picks. In the East, I would instead add the All-Mountain Narrow. I think the All-Mountain Narrow is kind of pointless in the West; the added width slows edge changes, but doesn't really buy you enough additional surface area to be meaningful as an All-Mountain ski.

Of course this is just how things have settled out for me from many years of testing skis and determining what makes sense for me. YMMV.

So... I've changed my mind about these categories. Why? Well I've used these specific definitions for many years to help guide building my quiver. They go back to about 2013 and I haven't really changed them much since then. But this thread got me thinking, along with the recent reviews and category definitions over on RealSkiers from Jackson Hogen. With my recent experiences as additional input, I have changed my category definitions and the "boundary lines" I'm using between them.

The new quiver now has the buckets separated into 6 categories; adding a Race-SL (aka "ice skates") into the mix. Also, I have revised where I think the waist width creates the correct boundary lines. Of course this is based on my own opinions and some would argue that waist width shouldn't be the end-all when it comes to building a quiver, but for me I cannot deny the fact that at about the 80mm mark a ski is definitely slower coming up on edge on hard snow and that at 90mm I really start to feel the burden of the additional width on my ankles and knees.

I have somewhat adopted the RealSkiers categorizations with some changes:

1. Race-SL: 60-70mm waist, 10-14m SR, 160-170cm, 1100-1300 cm^2 area
   
2. Hard-Pack: 70-80mm waist, 12-16m SR, 165-175cm, 1200-1400 cm^2 area
   
3. All-Mountain Narrow: 80-90mm waist, 14-18m SR, 170-180cm, 1400-1600 cm^2 area
   
4. All-Mountain Wide: 90-100mm waist, 16-20m SR, 175-185cm, 1600-1800 cm^2 area
   
5. Big-Mountain: 100-110mm waist, 18-22m SR, 180-190cm, 1800-2000 cm^2 area
   
6. Deep-Snow: 110-120mm waist, 20-24m SR, 185-195cm, 2000-2200 cm^2 area

There's a bit more overlap now in some of these characteristics since there are certainly skis which sit in more of a "fuzzy" border box when it comes to defining their best purpose. What's interesting about these new definitions is that it changes the way I look at what I've got in my quiver. I have far too many "ice skates" and I have realized that I actually prefer a ski with a bit more girth for groomer zooming (something in the 70s underfoot). I definitely need/want something new/better for a Hard-Pack ski, so I'll be unloading some of my Race-SL inventory.

TL;DR
My new thoughts on ski quivers yields these "adjusted" 3 ski quivers (shown only by the waist widths):

• 3 Ski Quiver East: 65mm, 85mm, 105mm
• 3 Ski Quiver West: 75mm, 95mm, 115mm

As always, YMMV.

 

[GregK]

What is your optimal 3 ski quiver? Appears you have been on wide selection of candidates.

As the cartoon above points out, the one HUGE thing I've learned to have in any ski to stay in my quiver now is versatility. No more one trick ponies that can charge but aren't fun at lower speeds or great on flat groomers then suck when it gets cruddy an hour later. Having a quiver is great but also the worst when you are out on the "wrong ski" that day when you have others at home that you know are far better in those conditions. With my current quiver that is "all killer and no filler" they do everything very well but get better on softer snow as they get wider or better on harder snow as they get narrower. All of my skis could be considered "one ski quivers" depending on the conditions. All very similar in flex and because I'm more of a playful charger type skier, most of my skis are in that type of ski. Solid flex underfoot with more forgiving tip/tail with a weight that won't be tossed around in rougher conditions. I never ski much on super icy conditions as my local hills groom every morning so don't have a ski under 84mm but if I did, it would have to perform well later in the day too.

1-So my current "hard snow/colder temps/moguls/groomer" ski is the Head Framewall(84mm) 181cm twin tip park ski that honestly is a revelation to someone like myself. Made for half pipe/slope style skiers but it's stiff flex, slight flat rocker, 20m turning radius and rubber dampening make it a very solid groomer ski for someone that sometimes wants to jump off stuff, bash some bumps or just fly down empty groomers at 50 plus mph. Large binding mounting area and have mine in between the "all mountain" and almost center "freestyle" mounts. The Framewall is very similar to a freestyle Brahma and I actually find the Framewall quieter over hard snow as the framewall has rubber on tips/tails/underfoot vs carbon fibre on the Brahma so it doesn't have that carbon ting sound. The Brahma would have a flatter tail so it has better hard snow grip and better carving power and the Brahma a bit heavier too so a touch better in crud. Brahma also doesn't spray your buddies with a twin tip rooster tail as you fly by. lol
Stockli AX or AR would be the premium choice in this segment. Good carving but still very good when things aren't flat.

So Framewall is perfect for me in this width but for most traditional skiers the Brahma(esp 82) is my pick for someone that wants something that's good on everything to hard snow to a bit of snow. I'm willing to give up a bit of edge grip vs a carving ski but add versatility when things get roughed up. If I did face harder snow more often I'd maybe consider something narrower. Lighter or less aggressive skiers should maybe consider the Bushwacker.

2-I didn't mention the Enforcers in the first group as I find them very good on hard snow but not quite as biting as the Brahma in harder snow but they are going to be a bit more versatile when things get cruddy, softer or off piste. Depending on what other skis a person has in their quiver or where they ski that would determine the width but the 88, 93 or 100 could be a great "middle ski" in almost any quiver. Harder snow biased conditions/already have a skinny carving ski going to the 88 and those mostly seeing softer snow to the 100. I have the 93 which offers great early morning edge grip in the 185cm length but is still very good in the afternoon crud or if you get some surprise snow during the day. I also have the 104 Free which sacrifices some edge grip for a more playful and forgiving flex along with more float. The E104 could make for a very versatile 3rd ski/powder ski in areas that don't get lots of snow. I used it lots of times in the Spring as it mows through crud and it's so fun in the bumps yet if you happen to hit a flat groomer, it still can carve very well like the other Enforcers.

If I had to choose one ski in this category it would maybe be the JSkis Master Blaster as it's very "Enforcer like" in versatility and would be like Enforcer 96 Free if they made it. Playful like the E104 but quicker edge to edge. You'd give up a bit edge grip compared to the 88/93 but it more forgiving and fun like the 104. The Dynastar Slicer Factory I just got on a deal this year would also be similar to the MB but with more of a hard snow bias with it's flatter rocker and tip/tail shape.
If I skied in mostly firmer conditions and wasn't doing the occasional jump line in the park, I'd pick the Enforcer 93 as my one ski in this section.

3-Easiest choice of any quiver, Moment Bibby/Wildcat for a wide powder ski. The hype for the last 10 years on this ski is very deserved and very few skis mix a ski that's so fun and playful at low speeds in the trees but can just HAUL though crud with ease. Great the first few untracked runs and then separates from other skis when things get tracked up even though it's not a heavy ski. Carves very well at when the snow is soft too. There were a few days this Spring where the snow was so thick and heavy that I was the only one off one lift for the last few hours of the day as it was so hard to ski but the Bibby's could ski it. Moment now makes the Wildcat 108 which would be perfect for areas that don't get as much snow or for days out West where there is just a bit of new snow. The only reason I don't have the Wildcat 108 is that the Enforcer 104 is going to have more effective edge and is a better carver if things are firm. So E104 more versatile for me on the conditions I usually face and would get more use out of them. The Bibbys come out only when things are super soft or when there is new snow. Always a great day when the Bibbys are out!

 

[geepers]

Quite interesting how many people simply can't stick with the brief - pick a 3 ski quiver.

Not: 3 skis for the east and 3 for the west and 3 for north and ....

I have a hard time wondering why anyone needs more than 2!

Here's my 3 ski quiver:
1. Something narrowish for the firmer days which like it or not seem to be the majority of days - (iRallys most likely)
2. Something mid-fat for pow days - will be replacing worn out 88 Blizzard Buchwackers probably with new Bushwackers)
3. And only because there has to be a 3rd - something for sheer fun. Which would be Elan SLX. (There's a reason Glen Plake loves sking on 'em.)

 

[Tony S]

I never ski much on super icy conditions as my local hills groom every morning so don't have a ski under 84mm

Where do you ski?

 

[Tony S]

So @geepers's pow ski is not so different from @GregK's groomer ski.

 

[Tony S]

Quite interesting how many people simply can't stick with the brief - pick a 3 ski quiver.

Not: 3 skis for the east and 3 for the west and 3 for north and ....

I have a hard time wondering why anyone needs more than 2!

Here's my 3 ski quiver:
1. Something narrowish for the firmer days which like it or not seem to be the majority of days - (iRallys most likely)
2. Something mid-fat for pow days - will be replacing worn out 88 Blizzard Buchwackers probably with new Bushwackers)
3. And only because there has to be a 3rd - something for sheer fun. Which would be Elan SLX. (There's a reason Glen Plake loves sking on 'em.)

Quite a bit of overlap between the Rally and the SLX, no?

 

[Noodler]

Quite interesting how many people simply can't stick with the brief - pick a 3 ski quiver.

Not: 3 skis for the east and 3 for the west and 3 for north and ....

I have a hard time wondering why anyone needs more than 2!

Here's my 3 ski quiver:
1. Something narrowish for the firmer days which like it or not seem to be the majority of days - (iRallys most likely)
2. Something mid-fat for pow days - will be replacing worn out 88 Blizzard Buchwackers probably with new Bushwackers)
3. And only because there has to be a 3rd - something for sheer fun. Which would be Elan SLX. (There's a reason Glen Plake loves sking on 'em.)

I think you are misinterpreting the East and West thing. That's a 3 ski quiver suitable for someone who lives on the East coast of the U.S. vs. someone on the West side of the U.S. It's not 6 skis... it's pick one or the other.

 

[KingGrump]

What if one live & ski both east & west?

 

[Noodler]

As the cartoon above points out, the one HUGE thing I've learned to have in any ski to stay in my quiver now is versatility. No more one trick ponies that can charge but aren't fun at lower speeds or great on flat groomers then suck when it gets cruddy an hour later. Having a quiver is great but also the worst when you are out on the "wrong ski" that day when you have others at home that you know are far better in those conditions. With my current quiver that is "all killer and no filler" they do everything very well but get better on softer snow as they get wider or better on harder snow as they get narrower. All of my skis could be considered "one ski quivers" depending on the conditions. All very similar in flex and because I'm more of a playful charger type skier, most of my skis are in that type of ski. Solid flex underfoot with more forgiving tip/tail with a weight that won't be tossed around in rougher conditions. I never ski much on super icy conditions as my local hills groom every morning so don't have a ski under 84mm but if I did, it would have to perform well later in the day too.

1-So my current "hard snow/colder temps/moguls/groomer" ski is the Head Framewall(84mm) 181cm twin tip park ski that honestly is a revelation to someone like myself. Made for half pipe/slope style skiers but it's stiff flex, slight flat rocker, 20m turning radius and rubber dampening make it a very solid groomer ski for someone that sometimes wants to jump off stuff, bash some bumps or just fly down empty groomers at 50 plus mph. Large binding mounting area and have mine in between the "all mountain" and almost center "freestyle" mounts. The Framewall is very similar to a freestyle Brahma and I actually find the Framewall quieter over hard snow as the framewall has rubber on tips/tails/underfoot vs carbon fibre on the Brahma so it doesn't have that carbon ting sound. The Brahma would have a flatter tail so it has better hard snow grip and better carving power and the Brahma a bit heavier too so a touch better in crud. Brahma also doesn't spray your buddies with a twin tip rooster tail as you fly by. lol
Stockli AX or AR would be the premium choice in this segment. Good carving but still very good when things aren't flat.

So Framewall is perfect for me in this width but for most traditional skiers the Brahma(esp 82) is my pick for someone that wants something that's good on everything to hard snow to a bit of snow. I'm willing to give up a bit of edge grip vs a carving ski but add versatility when things get roughed up. If I did face harder snow more often I'd maybe consider something narrower. Lighter or less aggressive skiers should maybe consider the Bushwacker.

2-I didn't mention the Enforcers in the first group as I find them very good on hard snow but not quite as biting as the Brahma in harder snow but they are going to be a bit more versatile when things get cruddy, softer or off piste. Depending on what other skis a person has in their quiver or where they ski that would determine the width but the 88, 93 or 100 could be a great "middle ski" in almost any quiver. Harder snow biased conditions/already have a skinny carving ski going to the 88 and those mostly seeing softer snow to the 100. I have the 93 which offers great early morning edge grip in the 185cm length but is still very good in the afternoon crud or if you get some surprise snow during the day. I also have the 104 Free which sacrifices some edge grip for a more playful and forgiving flex along with more float. The E104 could make for a very versatile 3rd ski/powder ski in areas that don't get lots of snow. I used it lots of times in the Spring as it mows through crud and it's so fun in the bumps yet if you happen to hit a flat groomer, it still can carve very well like the other Enforcers.

If I had to choose one ski in this category it would maybe be the JSkis Master Blaster as it's very "Enforcer like" in versatility and would be like Enforcer 96 Free if they made it. Playful like the E104 but quicker edge to edge. You'd give up a bit edge grip compared to the 88/93 but it more forgiving and fun like the 104. The Dynastar Slicer Factory I just got on a deal this year would also be similar to the MB but with more of a hard snow bias with it's flatter rocker and tip/tail shape.
If I skied in mostly firmer conditions and wasn't doing the occasional jump line in the park, I'd pick the Enforcer 93 as my one ski in this section.

3-Easiest choice of any quiver, Moment Bibby/Wildcat for a wide powder ski. The hype for the last 10 years on this ski is very deserved and very few skis mix a ski that's so fun and playful at low speeds in the trees but can just HAUL though crud with ease. Great the first few untracked runs and then separates from other skis when things get tracked up even though it's not a heavy ski. Carves very well at when the snow is soft too. There were a few days this Spring where the snow was so thick and heavy that I was the only one off one lift for the last few hours of the day as it was so hard to ski but the Bibby's could ski it. Moment now makes the Wildcat 108 which would be perfect for areas that don't get as much snow or for days out West where there is just a bit of new snow. The only reason I don't have the Wildcat 108 is that the Enforcer 104 is going to have more effective edge and is a better carver if things are firm. So E104 more versatile for me on the conditions I usually face and would get more use out of them. The Bibbys come out only when things are super soft or when there is new snow. Always a great day when the Bibbys are out!

Whether a ski quiver will work for a skier is somewhat dependent on where you ski. I primarily ski at places where I can fairly easily flip skis. I always have 2 to 3 pairs in the car on any given day. Skis that live in the middle between the extremes of a carver vs. a powder ski are always a compromise. How much of a compromise you're willing to make to have a suitable ski is up to the skier. I'm not willing to compromise often, so I'm a quiver guy with skis dedicated to specific uses.

If you have a quiver, you need some kind of method to help you with making a decision about what to ski on any given day. That's why I put up my posts; to show what my thought process is, with the idea that it could help someone else.

With the 6 categories I now have defined, I think it pretty much lays out like this for on-piste vs. off-piste usage.

1. Race-SL: 100% / 0%
2. Hard-Pack: 80% / 20%
3. A-M Narrow: 60% / 40%
4. A-M Wide: 40% / 60%
5. Big-Mountain: 20% / 80%
6. Deep-Snow: 0% / 100%

 

[Noodler]

What if one live & ski both east & west?

We already know you have a separate quivers...

 

[GregK]

Where do you ski?

Ontario Canada so similar to East Coast conditions on 550’-800’ vert hills but all the places I normally ski at freshly groom all runs just before opening so you can always bite in starting from the first run. So it’s more of an charging afternoon crud thing than a float thing using wider skis on groomers in the afternoon. Lots of members on carving snowboards that do a number on soft groomers in no time. Many of the resorts groom mid afternoon as it gets so choppy. Never started any day with wider skis unless it’s super heavy Spring snow right from the start or new snow.

Usually take 3 pairs of skis in the car each day for easy swaps if I want but trying to keep each out longer if I can and with the current quiver I can.

Trips out West every year and spending a month in Utah this year. Bringing the Slicers and Bibbys as I’m never on groomers out West. Live in the trees and back bowls there.

 

[GregK]

Whether a ski quiver will work for a skier is somewhat dependent on where you ski. I primarily ski at places where I can fairly easily flip skis. I always have 2 to 3 pairs in the car on any given day. Skis that live in the middle between the extremes of a carver vs. a powder ski are always a compromise. How much of a compromise you're willing to make to have a suitable ski is up to the skier. I'm not willing to compromise often, so I'm a quiver guy with skis dedicated to specific uses.

If you have a quiver, you need some kind of method to help you with making a decision about what to ski on any given day. That's why I put up my posts; to show what my thought process is, with the idea that it could help someone else.

With the 6 categories I now have defined, I think it pretty much lays out like this for on-piste vs. off-piste usage.

1. Race-SL: 100% / 0%
2. Hard-Pack: 80% / 20%
3. A-M Narrow: 60% / 40%
4. A-M Wide: 40% / 60%
5. Big-Mountain: 20% / 80%
6. Deep-Snow: 0% / 100%

Use similar thinking to what skis I use every day as I can usually swap out easily at my home resorts. The versatility thing is more when I only bring out a few skis or one ski on the resort shuttle and then conditions dramatically change from forecast and I’m “stuck” on the wrong skis the whole day.

Didn’t take my Bibby’s last trip out West as no new snow forecast and of course they got snow. Tried my 101mm underfoot PB&J for the first time in the fresh powder(which should be plenty wide) and they sucked. Got tip dive like crazy and ended up renting other skis to salvage the day. Bought my Enforcer 104 the day I got back home and sold the PB&Js. E104 better in all conditions. So I still want SOME versatility even in my quiver skis.

 

[geepers]

Quite a bit of overlap between the Rally and the SLX, no?

The SLX is narrower under foot (66 vs 76), and notably more agile. Yes, even compared to the Rally - I skied the SLX straight after the Rally. Plus who can resist "dual titanium"? (Well, that's what it says on the packet.) But, it's a heavy unit and I have hip flexor issues so I'd use it occasional days.

Without the hip flexor issues I'd probably just go for the SLX - those skis were a blast.

So @geepers's pow ski is not so different from @GregK's groomer ski.

I suspect skier weight may have something to do with it. The rest is personal preference and experience.

For my weight (around 155lbs) about 88 under foot works just fine for resort skiing. Struggling to recall even one day in the last 300 ski days when envied those on wider skis. A mid fat like an 88 is ok on a groomer as well. If I hadn't embarked on skier improvement for CSIA credentials I'd probably be arguing that about 88 would work pretty well for everything.

I ski mostly inland BC, Canada (Big White, Silver Star). Those resorts get plenty of pow days (usually, but not always light and fluffy, Okanagan champagne pow) and I spend lots of time in the trees and bumps. Also ski Australia where coral reefs are common and there's a fair chance any pow will be heavier. (There's also a fair chance it will be -8 deg C, raining and +8 deg C on consecutive days.)

What if one live & ski both east & west?

Umm... Australia and Canada. Really, really should get separate kit for each - less to haul around.

Now I have an excuse for those SLXs.

 

[Marker]

So... I've changed my mind about these categories. Why? Well I've used these specific definitions for many years to help guide building my quiver. They go back to about 2013 and I haven't really changed them much since then. But this thread got me thinking, along with the recent reviews and category definitions over on RealSkiers from Jackson Hogen. With my recent experiences as additional input, I have changed my category definitions and the "boundary lines" I'm using between them.

The new quiver now has the buckets separated into 6 categories; adding a Race-SL (aka "ice skates") into the mix. Also, I have revised where I think the waist width creates the correct boundary lines. Of course this is based on my own opinions and some would argue that waist width shouldn't be the end-all when it comes to building a quiver, but for me I cannot deny the fact that at about the 80mm mark a ski is definitely slower coming up on edge on hard snow and that at 90mm I really start to feel the burden of the additional width on my ankles and knees.

I have somewhat adopted the RealSkiers categorizations with some changes:

1. Race-SL: 60-70mm waist, 10-14m SR, 160-170cm, 1100-1300 cm^2 area
   
2. Hard-Pack: 70-80mm waist, 12-16m SR, 165-175cm, 1200-1400 cm^2 area
   
3. All-Mountain Narrow: 80-90mm waist, 14-18m SR, 170-180cm, 1400-1600 cm^2 area
   
4. All-Mountain Wide: 90-100mm waist, 16-20m SR, 175-185cm, 1600-1800 cm^2 area
   
5. Big-Mountain: 100-110mm waist, 18-22m SR, 180-190cm, 1800-2000 cm^2 area
   
6. Deep-Snow: 110-120mm waist, 20-24m SR, 185-195cm, 2000-2200 cm^2 area

There's a bit more overlap now in some of these characteristics since there are certainly skis which sit in more of a "fuzzy" border box when it comes to defining their best purpose. What's interesting about these new definitions is that it changes the way I look at what I've got in my quiver. I have far too many "ice skates" and I have realized that I actually prefer a ski with a bit more girth for groomer zooming (something in the 70s underfoot). I definitely need/want something new/better for a Hard-Pack ski, so I'll be unloading some of my Race-SL inventory.

TL;DR
My new thoughts on ski quivers yields these "adjusted" 3 ski quivers (shown only by the waist widths):

• 3 Ski Quiver East: 65mm, 85mm, 105mm
• 3 Ski Quiver West: 75mm, 95mm, 115mm

As always, YMMV.

So where do you put a ~20 M cheater GS ski < 70 mm wide in your 6 categories? A pretty popular type of ski.

 

[Bigwaves]

Stockli AX - chasing my high school kids in the front side
Kastle FX96 - daily driver
Kastle BMX 105 HP - chasing east coast unicorn days

 

[TimF]

Stockli AX - chasing my high school kids in the front side
Kastle FX96 - daily driver
Kastle BMX 105 HP - chasing east coast unicorn days

That’s a good set.

 

[Noodler]

So where do you put a ~20 M cheater GS ski < 70 mm wide in your 6 categories? A pretty popular type of ski.

You'd need a 7th category: Race-GS

It's not something I ever use.

 

[Marker]

You'd need a 7th category: Race-GS

It's not something I ever use.

I think if we keep trying we can get the minimum ski quiver number to 9 as mentioned above.

So for the minimum three ski quiver, we have your broadest definitions, which I can't see any disagreement about, although I would soften the last to Soft-Snow ski to make it universal between the East and West.

"The 3 ski quiver should pick a Hard-Pack, All-Mountain Regular, and Deep-Snow ski."

The definition of turn radius or width probably has more to do with your style of skiing and where you ski.