2nd Tahoe ski advice please

[Dougb]

I was following @Jarngreipr's thread on adding a wider ski for the West but didn't want to hijack it for my own purposes. @Mike King asked some questions that got me thinking. He said:

Personally, my daily driver this year has be a 66 under foot slalom ski. On every day with more than 4 inches, I've been on my 84. I've skied my 98's exactly twice this season, and perhaps 5 times in the last 2-3 years. And that's in 68 days of skiing this season, 85 last (curtailed by Covid), and 50 the previous (aborted due to injury). I'm actually thinking of downsizing to a daily driver in the mid-70s.

So, my question to you is is your desire for a wider ski an aspirational one? Do you think that having a wider ski will bring deep powder days? Do you have the technique to ski your 84 off-piste? Because if you have that technique, I suspect you will have a much better tool for the conditions you are likely to find out west with that 84 than with a wider ski.

You can always rent a wider ski out west if conditions warrant.

Mike (a ski instructor, not a shop rat -- they seem to push wide skis which lead to bad technique when narrower skis are a more fun option in most conditions out west)...

This is exactly the question I am struggling with. My only ski this season in Tahoe is a Vist Crossover II, which is the same ski as the Blossom White Out (131-77-111) under a different brand. So far I have 11 or 12 days on them and they have been all I need. With Vist Speedlock Pro bindings they are unreal on the groomed runs, which is where I prefer to spend 90% of my time.

However, my 11 year old is starting to wander into the trees and down black diamond mogul runs and I find myself wishing for a flat ski without the weight of plates to follow him with. Maybe I'm just not up to snuff to ski my Vists there but where I can make quick turns on the groomers at high speeds I have a harder time pivoting on a dime when I'm running through the trees and run into some unforeseen obstacle. If I need to work harder at learning to use them off piste let me know -- I am not too proud!

Alternatively, I am questioning whether I should step up to something in the mid 90s (say a Stance 96 or if I can afford it a SR 95) or should I take a more modest step to the upper 80s with a ski that can still carve the front side hard (my first love) but has the all mountain chops I need to follow him off piste (eg. a Fischer RC One GT 86, Wingman 86cti, Endurance 88, Evolv90, etc.) Where I go back and forth is if I should make a jump of 10 or 20cm. As a family man I can only afford a 2-ski quiver.

I've always received good advice here. You guys were right about not buying some dad skis because the kids have come along quickly (let's hear it for investing in good ski instruction!). So please steer me in the right direction again.

Thanks!

 

[KingGrump]

where I can make quick turns on the groomers at high speeds I have a harder time pivoting on a dime when I'm running through the trees

Speed masks many existing deficiencies in your skiing. Try making smooth quick turns while skiing slowly on the groom. That should be telling.
I generally like 88/95 for all around western skiing. YMMV.

 

[Dougb]

Speed masks many existing deficiencies in your skiing. Try making smooth quick turns while skiing slowly on the groom. That should be telling.
I generally like 88/95 for all around western skiing. YMMV.

Thanks. That’s been the beauty of skiing with my kids this season. Slowed me down a ton and let me practice smoother turns of all shapes and sizes. I seem to do fine when I have the space to roam and plan my turns. It’s when I have to pivot quickly — like in Heavenly’s trees — that I don’t do as well. Moguls are harder on these skis than some of the others I’ve skied during the last two years as well.

I’m coming back after a 30+ year break from skiing so if the answer is to save money on skis and invest them in a lesson or two for myself I’m happy to do that as well!

 

[DocGKR]

Lessons are good first start. Then another lesson.

I enjoy 76-78mm skis (ex. Head e/i.Rally, Liberty V76, Rossi Hero Plus Ti) for Tahoe resort skiing, including groomers, as well as going into bumps, trees, and several inches of fresh snow.

If you want another pair of skis, something like a Liberty Evolv 90, Dynastar M-Pro 90, Nordica Enforcer 88, might complement your current boards for the majority of typical resort skiing at Tahoe.

 

[Dougb]

I realize I might be raising two different issues here, so let me go back to my league bowling days.

I took lessons almost every year to improve my game. Most of the time I could get away with bringing 1-2 ball to league and adapting it to whatever lane conditions I saw. But every once in awhile the lane conditions would be different and I’d be kicking myself for not having the right ball with me as I struggled to adjust.

I’m going to take a lesson for off piste. So the question is: do I need another “ball” for “Tahoe league”?

 

[Plai]

Hi Doug,
I'm using my AX with Salomon demo bindings on groomers, in bumps and trees recently in Tahoe. They have been better than my SR95s in the light refreshes. From what I've read, the blossom whiteouts are very similar skis. I don't know how a Vist plate changes the skis, but I suspect stiffness and a little height.

From your original post I'm not clear what type of turns you are attempting in the bumps and trees.

On groomers, I try to use carved turns because they're more fun, energetic. But, in bumps and trees, it's mostly brushed/skidded turns and pivot slips. And, more importantly, I slow down quite a bit. Below is a video on brushed/skidded turns. There's been multiple threads on bump progressions (that we probably don't need to rehash here), but in short: absorb, brush turn, and keep the tips on the snow.

 

[KingGrump]

I’m going to take a lesson for off piste. So the question is: do I need another “ball” for “Tahoe league”?

Yes. A slightly wider ski with rockers and less camber will make it easier to go off piste by providing a larger sweet spot.

 

[raytseng]

i think the answer is go demo for a day with an onmtn demo and attempt to try a few 88 vs 98 and see if you can feel the difference.
Hopefully on a day where you can really test and aren't saddled with following kids.

The very newest 98 skis are not that clumsy or awkward, and you can ski and carve on them with good technique and half inch of soft surface, plus easily do all the pivoting techniques. With the typical cement we get the extra width /mass in a 98 is useful to not get thrown around or stuck. If the ski can pivot vs just lockin to a carve, weight is not necessarily a bad thing. E.g. the latest bonafide97 or enforcer both are pretty easy to ski with a wide envelope, esp. compared to their 1st gen clumsier versions (or maybe I've gotten better )

If you want to think through it, if you have a 2sq what conditions would you be taking out the 88? if it hasn't snowed wouldn't you just take out the vist?

For me its ax and bonafide so Im doing the 20mm separation.

 

[ski otter 2]

At least for me, what ski you are on makes a decisive difference, in terms of what you are looking for.

I own both AXes and Blossom Whiteout, the former in 175 and 183, the latter in 177(?) or so, the latter with look pivots (no plate). All three great skis that get used a lot. But they ski very differently, all three of them. And the Whiteouts would handle differently with a plate. The Whiteout set up you have is biased towards groomer carving instead of bumps/off piste. You would notice the big difference immediately w/o the plate - especially off piste, in bumps & trees and on soft snow days. My setup on the Whiteouts would seem to you like "cheater" skis for bumps and soft snow off piste, compared to yours, probably. My setup is great on groomers also, particularly for body separation, in the fall line turns; but really laid over, race-like turns would be easier/more effective with a plate.

Bottom line, I'd much rather be on the pivot Look Whiteouts (or any non-plate setup) than any AX in bumps/trees/soft snow days not spent on groomers.

That said, I wouldn't presume to tell you what skis you would like best for your bump/tree/soft snow purposes. I'd suggest you demo, because we all ski a bit different, different sizes, different styles, different skills. I just know what ski you are on matters a lot, if you pretty much have the skills already.

 

[ski otter 2]

P.S. The other skis you mention at both high eighties to 90 (RC One GT, Wingman) and high nineties to 100, confuse me a bit, because they are mostly carver-biased skis also (Stance series; SR 95 a fairly pure all mountain carver), not the greatest at off piste/bumps/trees, where to me they lose a lot, with the possible exception of the Endurance 88 and Evolv90. (The Liberty Evolv might work, but I have only read about it, not tried: for most folks, I gather, the off piste/bump/tree "wow" ski here for them is the Origin series, not the Evolv series, which is more between groomer carver and off piste - hopefully "best of both worlds" ski, I've heard).

I own a longer (182) Fischer Multiflex GT 86 - wonderful, but very groomer biased. The shorter version, the 175 GT 86, might still work for you, it's so secure and agile - amazing, but it is also a carver-biased, not a pivot easy ski, essentially.

I've demoed the Enforcer 88 and found it fairly middle of the road blah (for me) but good at slarving/skidding with some carving, and very balanced/stable.

To me, a good pivot/bump ski just stands out in that regard, is a "wow" off piste and in bumps, mostly. But like you, I'm a 90% groomer and mild off piste skier at this point, so I've only demoed those, occasionally. And the non-plate Whiteout is one of the skis I use for "sort of" bumps now, while the K2 Pinnacle 105/186 is another (when it's soft snow).

 

[Unpiste]

I do really like the SR88 for the kind of mixed conditions Tahoe has right now. They’re going to require a little more work / technique than something more purely off-piste oriented, but they can handle most conditions quite well. No problem in tight trees if you take it smooth and slow (whatever slow means for you).

(About 7” fresh on top of crust today.)

 

[Dougb]

I love this place. No flames, only solid constructive advice and opinions. To show my appreciation I visited the store and took advantage of some of the sales. WIN-WIN!

The Vist Speedlock Pros are the first plates I've ever skied on. I think that @ski otter 2 is on to something there. It does make me wonder what some Blossom Crosswinds with no plates would be like.

As for the other skis I mentioned, I was looking at skis that are mostly frontside oriented carvers but also offer some more off piste versatility. @Andy Mink and Blister gave the Wingman 86cti high marks in that department. The Crosswind also comes to mind. And from what I've read the Stocklis and Kastles are winners too, along with the Endurance 88.

So maybe it comes down to whether I grab something in the high 80s or low to mid 90s and save my Vists for days when I'm not with my kids and I want to go flying down the groomers. @raytseng is making me think hard about it.

 

[Alexzn]

He already has a groomer ski, so the suggestions of an 88mm ski are misguided, it's quiver overlap, especially in Tahoe with its heavy maritime snow and big dumps. I would go for a 100-105 is ski that has at least some tip rocker. If trees are a big goal tip AND tail rocker will be really useful.

 

[Flo]

You will have a lot of different opinions and it depends on what kind of skiing you prefer. I ski Tahoe too, often Northstar and have a Rustler 9 and a Wildcat. I had a 76mm wide for groomers that I sold. I can’t conceive to ski Tahoe and not have freeride oriented ski. I am not a talented skier and if some people say that everyone should be able to use a slalom ski off piste, I think it’s easier with some tip and tail rocker. Having a wider platform would be fun too during or just after a storm. Rustler 10, Fisher ranger 102...

 

[Quandary]

If you are in Tahoe you should head over to Praxis Skis, they are located in Incline Village. Not sure what their protocols are in the COVID era but you may even be able to get a quick tour from Kieth, the owner.

 

[maverick2]

If you decide a 10-mm width increase is more to your liking than jumping to a 20-mm width, you might check into DPS' Cassiar F87. I've got a lot of time on DPS (though not this particular model) and both the Cassiar 87 and 94 came to mind when I read your post. There are some pretty good reviews of the ski on this forum when it was first released -- the ski's strengths tend to match what it sounds like you are looking for, particularly if you choose to stay in an 80-something width.) As long as the soft snow doesn't get too deep, the 87s are going to handle the trees and bumps you want to venture into VERY nicely while being fairly forgiving, and give you a similar feel as a traditional carver when you get back to the groomed slopes. Sierra Trading Post has some left at $200, which is a killer deal for a ski of that versatility.

 

[BigSlick]

I’m in a similar decision matrix. I picked up a pair of last year’s Rossi Exp 88 Ti‘s for this season and have been great for in between storms in Tahoe for on/off trail at Kirkwood and N* with < 8” new snow. Spent 80% of the day last weekend off trial at Kirkwood after 7” inches of new snow fell the day or two before that was skied out but soft and they did everything I asked them to do.

I’m looking at 96-100mm skis for softer conditions and powder rather than dedicated powder skis since work/family obligations prevent just jumping in the car for a true pow day and don’t want a ski I‘ll probably use once a year. I’m not a hard charger, so I narrowed it down to the Liberty Origin 96 (and maybe 101) and the Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition. The Rustler 9 would be in conversation for me but the Rossi 88s are way more versatile than I expected so too much overlapping with the Rustlers for me, but something to consider since you are on 77s. The Rustler 9 might be what you’re looking for has some metal for dampness, but a nice rocker/camber/rocker profile to chase the kids through trees and bumps.

 

[Prosper]

I’m in a similar decision matrix. I picked up a pair of last year’s Rossi Exp 88 Ti‘s for this season and have been great for in between storms in Tahoe for on/off trail at Kirkwood and N* with < 8” new snow. Spent 80% of the day last weekend off trial at Kirkwood after 7” inches of new snow fell the day or two before that was skied out but soft and they did everything I asked them to do.

I’m looking at 96-100mm skis for softer conditions and powder rather than dedicated powder skis since work/family obligations prevent just jumping in the car for a true pow day and don’t want a ski I‘ll probably use once a year. I’m not a hard charger, so I narrowed it down to the Liberty Origin 96 (and maybe 101) and the Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition. The Rustler 9 would be in conversation for me but the Rossi 88s are way more versatile than I expected so too much overlapping with the Rustlers for me, but something to consider since you are on 77s. The Rustler 9 might be what you’re looking for has some metal for dampness, but a nice rocker/camber/rocker profile to chase the kids through trees and bumps.

You’ll likely hear a few different opinions. To me it sounds a ski with a one-zero-something waist would better complement your Rossi Exp 88 Ti. A ski from the mid 90s-100 is too close of an overlap IMO. See this thread: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/dynastar-legend-x106-vs-nordica-enforcer-free-vs-others.22756/

 

[flbufl]

IMHO, you need a pair of softer flex skis, not wider ones.

I was following @Jarngreipr's thread on adding a wider ski for the West but didn't want to hijack it for my own purposes. @Mike King asked some questions that got me thinking. He said:



This is exactly the question I am struggling with. My only ski this season in Tahoe is a Vist Crossover II, which is the same ski as the Blossom White Out (131-77-111) under a different brand. So far I have 11 or 12 days on them and they have been all I need. With Vist Speedlock Pro bindings they are unreal on the groomed runs, which is where I prefer to spend 90% of my time.

However, my 11 year old is starting to wander into the trees and down black diamond mogul runs and I find myself wishing for a flat ski without the weight of plates to follow him with. Maybe I'm just not up to snuff to ski my Vists there but where I can make quick turns on the groomers at high speeds I have a harder time pivoting on a dime when I'm running through the trees and run into some unforeseen obstacle. If I need to work harder at learning to use them off piste let me know -- I am not too proud!

Alternatively, I am questioning whether I should step up to something in the mid 90s (say a Stance 96 or if I can afford it a SR 95) or should I take a more modest step to the upper 80s with a ski that can still carve the front side hard (my first love) but has the all mountain chops I need to follow him off piste (eg. a Fischer RC One GT 86, Wingman 86cti, Endurance 88, Evolv90, etc.) Where I go back and forth is if I should make a jump of 10 or 20cm. As a family man I can only afford a 2-ski quiver.

I've always received good advice here. You guys were right about not buying some dad skis because the kids have come along quickly (let's hear it for investing in good ski instruction!). So please steer me in the right direction again.

Thanks!

 

[TahoeWarrior]

I have basically a 3 resort quiver: AR (83 Underfoot); Pioneer 96; Rustler 11 (112 underfoot). Based on your objective of a 2 quiver and you're in Tahoe quite a bit, I'd lean into the 90'-100 underfoot. They say 10mm min differential between your skis. If you carve a lot on your 77 under ski, you'll most likely want something with a damp metal layup that excels off piste yet gives you that strong edge.
Go demo the Enforcer 100; M5 and then perhaps the SR95 (since it's on your list) or maybe the FX96HP (though the latest model ditched the metal). The Fisher Ranger or Elan Ripstick don't have metal but are strong options too. This category is the most popular ski category and there are quite a few good choices. Everyone I know with the Enforcer 100 loves it and rips (perhaps sans if you are super light). If you ski Squaw, the base demo center has all these. Tahoe Dave's has all but the FX I think too.
You have your on piste performer, so jumping into the high 90's under gives you something that you can hit off piste, hit powder days, crud, etc. with more energy and fun, yet if the above will sill hold an on piste edge well for the bottom of the hill.