2021 Kästle MX88 or 83

KingGrump

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Augment.:ogbiggrin: No umlauts, easier to type.
The way things are looking, I would say Augment will probably knock Stöckli off the top Pugski perch in couple of seasons.
For the real world, they have a lot more marketing to do.

How about Blossom? Much more affordable, especially after a Pugski discount!
Eh?
Most skiers buy skis to impress others. Who care how they ski.
Size of the price tag is one of the factors that wows most.
 

DanoT

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I may have opened up a debate like no other and I apologize.
Actually, you have opened up a debate LIKE many others and it is why many of us pugsters are here on this forum in the first place.:) :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
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David Edwards

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I like Stöckli and tried the AR and MX back to back. The MX 84 felt stiffer but I wouldn’t say either blew the other away. The Stöckli AR didn’t seem as stiff as it’s previous front side skis and maybe Kästle is following the slightly softer route. Look at the Stöckli AX as an example. So many people consider it the best in class and it’s not that stiff.
 

Wasatchman

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I like Stöckli and tried the AR and MX back to back. The MX 84 felt stiffer but I wouldn’t say either blew the other away. The Stöckli AR didn’t seem as stiff as it’s previous front side skis and maybe Kästle is following the slightly softer route. Look at the Stöckli AX as an example. So many people consider it the best in class and it’s not that stiff.
What made you lean Kästle over Stöckli after trying both? What got you to decide to buy the newer MX88 versus getting last year's MX89? Leap of faith, convenience of trusted shop carrying the new model, other factors?

I have never actually ridden on a Stöckli myself. I had been been meaning to try the 2018/2019 SR95 and never got to it. Even though I have not changed my opinion at all, one thing that I will concede is Stöckli has messed with the SR designs quite a bit over the years and it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all.
 

Wasatchman

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The honest and inconvenient truth is most can't really feel the subtle nuances.
Got it. Were they subtle? I have never been on a Stöckli but my impression from pugski reading is there were definitely some years where they really deviated the SR (especially the year with carbon in the tip) and then had to go back. But I don't know. Maybe most years are slight tweaks and subtle?

But yeah, probably a small subset of skiers that test model year to year and even smaller subset that really tuned in to notice all the differences.
 

Andy Mink

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The honest and inconvenient truth is most can't really feel the subtle nuances.
This. Especially newer skiers, returning skiers (me), beginner through advanced (me). I'm getting better though, and am starting to be able to describe what I feel, hopefully in a cohesive and informative manner. I think the same holds true for most people and that 1cm fore or aft binding mount point, a mm or 2 of binding delta, and all the other subtle nuances that surround skiing. I know there are lots of people who follow these forums who CAN tell the differences but, in the big world, it's a relatively small number.
 

Wasatchman

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This. Especially newer skiers, returning skiers (me), beginner through advanced (me). I'm getting better though, and am starting to be able to describe what I feel, hopefully in a cohesive and informative manner. I think the same holds true for most people and that 1cm fore or aft binding mount point, a mm or 2 of binding delta, and all the other subtle nuances that surround skiing. I know there are lots of people who follow these forums who CAN tell the differences but, in the big world, it's a relatively small number.
Agree and would even say the vast majority of skiers don't even demo and go purely off of reviews, what the shop guy tells them, if they csn get a good deal, and brand momentum. My guess is higher end brands that are premium cater to harder core ski enthusiasts that are more likely to demo and are in tune with a skis characteristics. But yeah, I think for most people there is more of a fashion element to choosing a ski than many like to admit. I am convinced of this from seeing the rise and fall of the Rossi Soul 7.

Edit: and the tricky part is that while most can't tell the difference, the small portion of skiers who can also can be highly influential and drive sales and buzz anyway. Selling skis is so hard and success seems to be much more than simply building a good ski.
 
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David Edwards

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What made you lean Kästle over Stöckli after trying both? What got you to decide to buy the newer MX88 versus getting last year's MX89? Leap of faith, convenience of trusted shop carrying the new model, other factors?

I have never actually ridden on a Stöckli myself. I had been been meaning to try the 2018/2019 SR95 and never got to it. Even though I have not changed my opinion at all, one thing that I will concede is Stöckli has messed with the SR designs quite a bit over the years and it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all.
The Stöckli laser AR is only 83 under foot and has a tighter turn radius. I would be happy on the AR or MX 84 to be honest; I just want to try something in the 88 range with camber. Stöckli does make the SR88 but I didn’t try it.
It is true that shop employees push skis they like but that’s true of most retail goods. I’m not suggesting Kästle is better than Stöckli but they are different. The shop I am getting the Kastles from love the MX 99 and FX line but also love Stöckli. I would go ski them back to back as they are premium skis but what really is a premium ski? The Völkl Deacon 84 v werks is not cheap but does it ski that much better than the regular Deacon 84? Im willing to pay for Kästle or Stöckli even if I perceive an improvement in skiing- which it probably is just a small difference. So much fun just spending money on new skis!
 
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David Edwards

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I almost forgot to mention. For those who like the old Kästle MX, the Miller SR88 skis seems similar without the hollow tech tip. I have not been on them; just noticed them in the store on my last trip to Vail. Honestly, never heard of them but they look nice.
 

Wasatchman

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Here is the link. https://millersportsaspen.com/shop/ski-shop/skis-online/miller-skis-sr88-21/
I know zero about them; I did pick them up and looked at the tails for dimensions, 130/88/114. To me they look and feel like a Kästle limited ski without the hollow tech.
Never heard of 'em. I bet they are made in the Head factory the MX89 was and are a design variant. Pretty wild.

Edit: they look like a private label version of the Kästle MX89. It's like Miller sports contacted Head and said, hey, you guys aren't making the MX89 anymore. Why don't you change it just enough from a legal perspective and throw our name on them. Isn't Miller just the retail shop?
 
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David Edwards

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Looks like the SR88 model also has a state of the art laser etched structure pattern on the base, it is not ground by a stone like every other ski brand in the world. I know flexing a ski by hand is not the real test but they didnt feel as stiff as the MX89.
 

cantunamunch

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Looks like the SR88 model also has a state of the art laser etched structure pattern on the base, it is not ground by a stone like every other ski brand in the world.
Original Plus use the Reichmann machines.


 

Wasatchman

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Original Plus use the Reichmann machines.


Isn't that guy an ex-Kästle dude? Maybe he approached Miller and said I'll make a ski for you and you can slap on the Miller name.

@Philpug , you ever hear of a private label ski made for a ski shop before?? That's a new one I've never seen. Kästle wouldn't be happy about this I wouldn't think as they are one of their dealers.
 

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