ski otter 2

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
892
A heads up on both Volkl Mantras 18/19, and recent V-Werks Katanas.

At the local shop I'm in most, a half dozen or so M5s have de-laminated, right behind the bindings. Mostly with heavier skiers. (That leaves me out, personally.) Most of these are happening with Look Pivots, presumably because of the more abrupt twist to the ski surface that can happen with this binding. But a few of them have happened with Marker Griffons. The warranty process is underway.

Second, it seems like a lot of, perhaps, the recent batch of V-Werks skis has a base railed problem, but not sure. Volkl when contacted says no, for now.

In the same local shop, my buddies who work there and I tested with a straight edge their inventory of V-Werks skis (after I had a problem with my new pair): two Mantras and three Katanas. All were hugely concave, rail high the lengths of the skis. Not sure how "off" these would ski, but looked like all would require a base flattening, minimum. (When contacted, the tech rep/product manager said that these V-Werks skis required multiple low air pressure passes (on, say, a Wintersteiger) to get them flat instead of railed. It would be nice if Volkl had followed this advice in the first place, at the factory.)


My own adventure with this: I got a pair of both Mantra M5 and Mantra V-Werks this year (the M5s before I knew the V-Werks existed), from two different large online retailers, since more local folk were out of my sizes.

While the M5 was perfectly tuned out of the wrap, the V-Werks was badly rail high the length of both skis, and rippled. On the snow, the V-Werks was dangerous - extremely hooky, locked into the edge, and other symptoms of rail high. (Demoed previously, this ski was my favorite at SIA.)

I do my own base flattening, from lots of experience the hard way with shops. (I'd have to go to Avon or Breck from here in Denver area to get someone who can reliably flatten bases, again, learned the hard way,)

Again from past experience, I know that a wide ski doesn't need to be flat to work - only be roughly flat about an inch or so along the edges. Not wanting to take off more than necessary, I took off what I hoped would be enough, and skied it. Nope. I repeated this several more times. Still no. Along the way, large so-called "birdbaths" formed along the base centers and also small ones along the side edges - symptoms of waviness to the edge and the base.

Tomorrow I'll test out the latest attempt, hopefully the last one. I can't remember having to do this more than once or twice with any ski, old or new, before.
 
Last edited:

James

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
9,310
A heads up on both Volkl Mantras 18/19, and recent V-Werks Katanas.

At the local shop I'm in most, a half dozen or so M5s have de-laminated, right behind the bindings. Mostly with heavier skiers. (That leaves me out, personally.) Most of these are happening with Look Pivots, presumably because of the more abrupt twist to the ski surface that can happen with this binding. But a few of them have happened with Marker Griffons. The warranty process is underway.

Second, it seems like a lot of, perhaps, the recent batch of V-Werks skis has a base railed problem, but not sure. Volkl when contacted says no, for now.

In the same local shop, my buddies who work there and I tested with a straight edge their inventory of V-Werks skis (after I had a problem with my new pair): two Mantras and three Katanas. All were hugely concave, rail high the lengths of the skis. Not sure how "off" these would ski, but looked like all would require a base flattening, minimum. (When contacted, the tech rep/product manager said that these V-Werks skis required multiple low air pressure passes (on, say, a Wintersteiger) to get them flat instead of railed. It would be nice if Volkl had followed this advice in the first place, at the factory.)


My own adventure with this: I got a pair of both Mantra M5 and Mantra V-Werks this year (the M5s before I knew the V-Werks existed), from two different large online retailers, since more local folk were out of my sizes.

While the M5 was perfectly tuned out of the wrap, the V-Werks was badly rail high the length of both skis, and rippled. On the snow, the V-Werks was dangerous - extremely hooky, locked into the edge, and other symptoms of rail high. (Demoed previously, this ski was my favorite at SIA.)

I do my own base flattening, from lots of experience the hard way with shops. (I'd have to go to Avon or Breck from here in Denver area to get someone who can reliably flatten bases, again, learned the hard way,)

Again from past experience, I know that a wide ski doesn't need to be flat to work - only be roughly flat about an inch or so along the edges. Not wanting to take off more than necessary, I took off what I hoped would be enough, and skied it. Nope. I repeated this several more times. Still no. Along the way, large so-called "birdbaths" formed along the base centers and also small ones along the side edges - symptoms of waviness to the edge and the base.

Tomorrow I'll test out the latest attempt, hopefully the last one. I can't remember having to do this more than once or twice with any ski, old or new, before.
What are you using to flatten it? Ski Visions tool?
 

ski otter 2

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
892
Hi, James. I use a combination of things: burred-edge scraper (old school), files taped together sometimes, and Ski Vision tools, with additional files thrown in on the S.V. platforms. Lots of elbow grease, at my age. Whew.
 
Last edited:

ski otter 2

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
892
P.S. I also use odds and ends suggested by @Jacques - who was the one who gave me the idea to go back to the metal scraper
I'd used long ago. (It's very effective.)
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,070
Location
Bend, OR
P.S. I also use odds and ends suggested by @Jacques - who was the one who gave me the idea to go back to the metal scraper
I'd used long ago. (It's very effective.)
Yea, the trick is to make the scraper very sharp! Takes some practice. If you are not cutting much, try again. When you get it good, you will know it!
After much of this work a base can get a bit wavy, but it's only a mil or so. I have found it makes the base faster like any "broken" structure.

If you have not seen this one, here I scrape down a very aggressive structure. https://www.pugski.com/threads/breaking-in-a-freshly-stone-ground-ski.7066/

Need to go about half way into video.
 

Swede

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
1,339
Location
Sweden
Can someone give me the low-down on the new Kendo(s) vs the previous generation? What’s the difference(s)? For who and where would one be better than the other?
Cheers
 

James

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
9,310
Can someone give me the low-down on the new Kendo(s) vs the previous generation? What’s the difference(s)? For who and where would one be better than the other?
Cheers
Calling Sir Kendo, @KingGrump .

But, you have to promise not to complain if you get one and don't like it!
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,422
Location
NYC
I haven't been on the new (2020) Kendo. @Philpug been on them. Perhaps he can chime in.

From what I can tell. The construction is probably similar to the new Mantra M5. It it ski anything like the M5, it will be a real winner.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
3,732
Location
Denver, CO
I haven't been on the new (2020) Kendo. @Philpug been on them. Perhaps he can chime in.

From what I can tell. The construction is probably similar to the new Mantra M5. It it ski anything like the M5, it will be a real winner.
They do indeed look very similar in construction (from what you can see) and flex. Both are stiff skis but appropriate for their weight if that makes sense. Volkl has definitely gone to a lighter construction but not super light like the Head Kores. While previous Mantras and Kendos were heavy beasts the new ones are more in tune with the current trends but still at the upper end of heft.
 

ski otter 2

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
892
They were the first 19/20 skis I tried when I got a chance, with much anticipation. I'd liked the M5 and bought a pair, and also got a pair of the new V-Werks Mantras.

For me, the K5 Katana (or whatever it's called) was not particularly different from the old version, at least not enough to wow me, the way the M5 and V-W had. I was disappointed.

On the other hand, I was not a superfan of the older version either, so probably @KingGrump will know better than I once he gets on a pair.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
3,732
Location
Denver, CO
Not everybody...read my thoughts....
Demoed the Volkl Mantra M5 in 184cm on a very firm snow day at Loveland with scraped off "ice" surfaces and bunched up "shaved ice" in piles and, pardon the pun. Loved them. They crushed everything they were just very consistent and held their carve smoothly through anything. So reliable and predictable. It was my fav of the day. Stunning edge hold but still easy to release. They felt a tad lighter and more maneuverable than my Monsters but still damp and stable. Sweet ride.

The Mantra 102 was a different beast. At least in the 184cm length. It felt much heavier. Still pretty quick for the width but the 3D radius sidecut felt a bid odd at times depending on how I skied them. They were predictable enough just that they would be too taxing for a full day of skiing. They also seem to require a heavier boot than what I had (Atomic Hawx Ultra 130S). Just too heavy a ski to move around the hill all day. If it sheds a bit of weight it will improve greatly. The M5 Mantra felt much more dialed.

I demoed the 102 and the M5 twice that day to be sure of my thoughts on the skis.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
3,732
Location
Denver, CO
I dunno if there is a V-Works of the Mantra 102. The M5 Mantra was perfect but there is an awesome V-Works version of that ski. Well, its a slightly different ski than both the M5 and the 102. The 102 just felt like a tank. I mean, on edge when you are working it its really nice just a bit too much even for me (I like heavier skis with metal in general). At that width, 102, I want something a bit lighter and more soft snow oriented. The Kastle MX99 (184cm) is similar but a tad more refined and maybe a notch down in heaviness.

If I were Volkl I would just take the 102 and reduce the amount of metal in the construction just a bit. Enough to loose maybe 100gr per ski.

The K2 Mindbender 99ti in 184cm also had the same issue but with the added problem of an even stiffer tip. It felt somewhat one dimensional even compared to the Mantra 102. Just a big bad crusher. The Mantra 102 was actually a bit more fun than the 99ti.
 
Last edited:

neonorchid

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Posts
3,584
You're correct, only Mantra and Katana. 2020 V-Werks Mantra is 99 waist which at my weight seems close enough to a 102, but yeah different ski.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
Pugski Ski Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
23,330
Location
Reno, eNVy
I dunno if there is a V-Works of the Mantra 102. The M5 Mantra was perfect but there is an awesome V-Works version of that ski. Well, its a slightly different ski than both the M5 and the 102. The 102 just felt like a tank. I mean, on edge when you are working it its really nice just a bit too much even for me (I like heavier skis with metal in general). At that width, 102, I want something a bit lighter and more soft snow oriented. The Kastle MX99 (184cm) is similar but a tad more refined and maybe a notch down in heaviness.

If I were Volkl I would just take the 102 and reduce the amount of metal in the construction just a bit. Enough to loose maybe 100gr per ski.

The K2 Mindbender 99ti in 184cm also had the same issue but with the added problem of an even stiffer tip. It felt somewhat one dimensional even compared to the Mantra 102. Just a big bad crusher. The Mantra 102 was actually a bit more fun than the 99ti.
We will disagree here, I think the Mantra 102 is perfect the way it is.
 
Top