Plai

Paul Lai
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Considering upgrading my 2016/17 AXs to the current generation: what improvements could I expect to encounter?
I also went from 2016/17 to 2020 AXs.

A little more performance, higher speed limit. [Read a little more stability at speed.] Lower end isn't quite as forgiving, but still accessible to higher intermediate. They seem a little quicker on edge, but that could have been the smoothrides tune.

I especially like the turtle shell top. Scratches to the top are much less visible. Skis still look new with 10+ days on them.
 

AlpedHuez

Aspiring Warner Nickerson
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Considering upgrading my 2016/17 AXs to the current generation: what improvements could I expect to encounter?
The Turtle Shell tech stiffens up the ski as more force is applied (the analogy I have seen is interlacing fingers of two hands and pushing out) so you get a compliant ski when you are more easy going and a stiff ski when you put the pedal to the metal.

I also believe they have changed up the tip rocker for more maneuverability in softer show.
 

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
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I just bought Edge 88's in 177 and Marker Tour bindings for uphill. Looking forward to them.
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
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Considering upgrading my 2016/17 AXs to the current generation: what improvements could I expect to encounter?
From 16/17 to 18/19 the ski changed the nose shaping for adaptive contact, the tail shaping for grip and and the wood in the core for a 250 gram weight loss.

For the 20/21 model the top sheet dimples were rounded a bit for even more scratch protection and the edges from the Stormrider series were adopted for more weight savings. (60 Grams)

Since your edition, the ski has dropped 310 grams. Which is nearly .75 lbs.

If you are using the system ski, the binding used in the newer generations is also 100 grams lighter and transfers power more effectively.
 

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Steve

SkiMangoJazz
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How do you compare the Edge 88 to the Stormrider 88?
 

LindseyB

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How do you compare the Edge 88 to the Stormrider 88?

Previously the EDGE and SR were the same shape. The difference was in the wood and metal. The Edge being lighter. Both have excellent edge power, but of the two, the heavier SR is more damp.

The EDGE is designed for side country/touring, but is still a Stöckli and excellent on piste for those not particularly heavy or those not demanding the strength of it's heavier sibling.
 

TahoeWarrior

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This is the PM I sent Tiki.


I wouldn't waste another year of your ski life not being on a Stöckli. Appease your budget and get the 85.

I don't feel that the difference between the 88 and 85 is noticeable enough to justify the higher cost if you can get a sweet deal on the closeout 85. Just make sure it is new and unused. Demoed skis are not likely to feel the same as what you found in the 88 as the demo shops usually put cheap tunes on the skis.

The 85 and 88 are very similar, almost identical in feel.
LindseyB - I have loved your contribution to this forum. I've just read a boatload from a few threads on the AX and AR. In Feb I demo'ed both for nearly a full day and was sold - I briefly reviewed them here: https://www.pugski.com/threads/2020-stöckli-laser-ar.17750/

Searching for feedback to make a final decision on AX vs AR. I loved both, I probably initially leaned toward the AX for it's energy. But loved both. I demo'd the 175 in both which on the beefier AR felt a tad too big as I felt I had to be ON all the time in that size. Perhaps the 168 would be better for me...
I've skied since a kid, but took many many years off to snowboard only. Now I pretty much only ski 30-50 days a year at Squaw, Alpine, Mammoth generally. I'm 42, very fit and like to ski aggressive. And, I'm only 5'7 and 140 lbs so my watt output naturally isn't the same as someone bigger. I've never owned a Stöckli, never raced, nor owned a ski under 90 underfoot. My daily driver is a playful Rustler 10 - replaced last year with Icelandic Pioneer 95. Also own a Rustler 11 for powder. Love to ski off piste, but the reality is there are so many days in Tahoe region where off piste is crap for most of the day and being on piste is a must unless you love to be beat up - which we try now and then anyway. This is where the AR or AX will fit for me. But which one? I told myself right before covid hit that whichever I can find a better deal on I'd buy . . .
 

LindseyB

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LindseyB - I have loved your contribution to this forum. I've just read a boatload from a few threads on the AX and AR. In Feb I demo'ed both for nearly a full day and was sold - I briefly reviewed them here: https://www.pugski.com/threads/2020-stöckli-laser-ar.17750/

Searching for feedback to make a final decision on AX vs AR. I loved both, I probably initially leaned toward the AX for it's energy. But loved both. I demo'd the 175 in both which on the beefier AR felt a tad too big as I felt I had to be ON all the time in that size. Perhaps the 168 would be better for me...
I've skied since a kid, but took many many years off to snowboard only. Now I pretty much only ski 30-50 days a year at Squaw, Alpine, Mammoth generally. I'm 42, very fit and like to ski aggressive. And, I'm only 5'7 and 140 lbs so my watt output naturally isn't the same as someone bigger. I've never owned a Stöckli, never raced, nor owned a ski under 90 underfoot. My daily driver is a playful Rustler 10 - replaced last year with Icelandic Pioneer 95. Also own a Rustler 11 for powder. Love to ski off piste, but the reality is there are so many days in Tahoe region where off piste is crap for most of the day and being on piste is a must unless you love to be beat up - which we try now and then anyway. This is where the AR or AX will fit for me. But which one? I told myself right before covid hit that whichever I can find a better deal on I'd buy . . .
PM sent
 

TahoeWarrior

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We recommend bindings and as far as placement, on the top of the skis. You are welcome. Follow me for other ski mounting suggestions.
Haha...good one. Yes, I'll start there!
Point taken - I should be more specific around feedback on potentially forward mounting on the AR, like many recommend on the AX. Any experience here?
 

Seldomski

Paralysis by analysis
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Haha...good one. Yes, I'll start there!
Point taken - I should be more specific around feedback on potentially forward mounting on the AR, like many recommend on the AX. Any experience here?
You should definitely mount them so the toe is forward and the heel is toward the back. Usually one of each per ski.

@Philpug am I doing it right?
 

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
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Nov 13, 2015
Posts
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Previously the EDGE and SR were the same shape. The difference was in the wood and metal. The Edge being lighter. Both have excellent edge power, but of the two, the heavier SR is more damp.

The EDGE is designed for side country/touring, but is still a Stöckli and excellent on piste for those not particularly heavy or those not demanding the strength of it's heavier sibling.
I waxed the two pairs of Edge 88's we bought. Very interesting thing I saw. The side edges have a very fine serration pattern to them. Easy to see with a magnifier. In fact when I was scraping wax off with a plastic scraper running it along the side edge and it sang, whistled.

Anyone know anything about this side edge phenomenon?
 

Unpiste

Booting down
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Feb 15, 2016
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Striations from a rotary grinding wheel?

I've had tunes which would make a ski whistle through the snow if you carved it just right on a reasonably hard surface. Kind of fun, actually.
 

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
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After more searching pugski I found a thread where LindseyB explains that yes they do have scalloping from the factory.
 

Rebound Hound

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Saalbach, Austria
Then you don't want a GS ski.
Do you think a 180cm WRT ST would be even more fatiguing and less compliant than the Laser GS 180cm due to the world cup construction (even though the radius is a bit smaller and should be quicker edge to edge with the reduced width). Perhaps the 16m radius might help though (that's the radius I tend to prefer on skis for a versatile mix of long and short turns).

I suppose a 180cm WRT ST is probably pretty similar to the green Atomic X9s in 181cm. Similar lengths, similar widths, similar radius - not sure about stiffness. I really like my new Blizzard Brahmas in 180cm but I can't help but feel 180/181cm is a bit too long in for me at times on stiff race inspired piste skis.
 
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