Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
Skier
Posts
1,240
Location
Killington
The Mantra is great for intermediates or advanced skiers not looking to get a ton of thrill out of a ski. Jack of all trades, master of none. It does exactly what it was designed to do, accommodate weekend warriors particularly well and keep Volkl brand fanboys from looking elsewhere to find out there are a lot funner skis on the market right now.
Love this description as last season my M5 Mantra was my go to ski when I needed a change from the Laser SC's. Getting back on the Volkl felt like I was let out of prison. Two different feels. Been a lifelong fanboy of the Volkl but those Swiss sure do make a smooth ski. The SC's would make me a better skier if I stayed on them all the time. Normally I get quickly bored carving on groomed trails. Love the feel of the SC's in the powder and 3D snow.
 

Choucas

Getting on the lift
Skier
Posts
182
We are all entitled to our opinions on how we feel about the performance of a particular ski. And we are all entitled to say what we like and dislike about a particular ski or brand. However, I have to call foul on posters who are in the employ of a ski company spinning their take on a competing brand. Plug your own brand if you like but calling out competing products by name as not being up to snuff is not only unethical, but it doesn't really serve the reader.
 

slowrider

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Posts
1,662
Bought my 2nd pair of Stocklis this fall. 165 SL fis. I can't wait to get on some ice with those. Is that wrong.
 

PNWRod

Putting on skis
Skier
Posts
108
Location
Crystal Mtn
No. What would be wrong is hiking up at night with a fire-hose to guarantee yourself some ice to practice on in the morning. :eek:
Just unhook the water line to the snow gun...unless you really want to pretend to be a fireman and drag all that hose.
 

LindseyB

Stöckli
Industry Insider
Manufacturer
Posts
80
Location
SLC
We are all entitled to our opinions on how we feel about the performance of a particular ski. And we are all entitled to say what we like and dislike about a particular ski or brand. However, I have to call foul on posters who are in the employ of a ski company spinning their take on a competing brand. Plug your own brand if you like but calling out competing products by name as not being up to snuff is not only unethical, but it doesn't really serve the reader.
Providing an accurate review of a ski unethical? Debatable and subject to circumstance.
Better said via private message to maintain diplomacy? Probably.

I think you could be in the minority with your condemnation in this particular instance. Whether or not me giving my reaction to a ski being unethical relies entirely on the motives, transparency, first hand knowledge, and accuracy of that review. For those that have the chops to understand a ski on their feet and have skied the skis I compared will know I didn't spin the review. I am asked constantly to give my contrasts and comparisons to other ski models all the time both on Pugski and in person. If they believed me offering my thoughts on other's products was unethical, they wouldn't be asking. Sometimes I'm reluctant, sometimes I'm not. I don't provide reviews unless I have skied a ski well enough to know what it is about. I didn't entirely blast the Mantra. It was more of a backhanded compliment and a sincere compliment at that. It does a good job doing what it was designed to do and the designer should be commended for that not so easy task.

Luckily I work for a brand where we usually have the best option for most skiers being Intermediates on up, but not in every instance. When I don't have the best fit, I'm not afraid to endorse a different company. I have recommended other brand's models and always sell at least a half dozen skis from different ski makers per year when it better fits the needs of the skier. At the end of the day, the most important goal is people having a great time on snow. I get a lot of joy finding the right ski for someone even if it is made by another brand.

I see some good in the general notion of your post and have no problem with favoring PM reviews of skis more often when it better serves the forum.

PM sent.
 

Choucas

Getting on the lift
Skier
Posts
182
Providing an accurate review of a ski unethical? Debatable and subject to circumstance.
Better said via private message to maintain diplomacy? Probably.

I think you could be in the minority with your condemnation in this particular instance. Whether or not me giving my reaction to a ski being unethical relies entirely on the motives, transparency, first hand knowledge, and accuracy of that review. For those that have the chops to understand a ski on their feet and have skied the skis I compared will know I didn't spin the review. I am asked constantly to give my contrasts and comparisons to other ski models all the time both on Pugski and in person. If they believed me offering my thoughts on other's products was unethical, they wouldn't be asking. Sometimes I'm reluctant, sometimes I'm not. I don't provide reviews unless I have skied a ski well enough to know what it is about. I didn't entirely blast the Mantra. It was more of a backhanded compliment and a sincere compliment at that. It does a good job doing what it was designed to do and the designer should be commended for that not so easy task.

Luckily I work for a brand where we usually have the best option for most skiers being Intermediates on up, but not in every instance. When I don't have the best fit, I'm not afraid to endorse a different company. I have recommended other brand's models and always sell at least a half dozen skis from different ski makers per year when it better fits the needs of the skier. At the end of the day, the most important goal is people having a great time on snow. I get a lot of joy finding the right ski for someone even if it is made by another brand.

I see some good in the general notion of your post and have no problem with favoring PM reviews of skis more often when it better serves the forum.

PM sent.
 

tube77

Booting up
Skier
Posts
27
Not everyone is supportive of sharing abundant information about the gluing system, the sharing is done in varying degrees, the specifics are not shared widely. I am in the camp of "sharing less info helps mitigate imitators".

I said "your right, it is PVF" to end this, I guess that didn't work.

To remind you, you started this. "You could also have sent me a PM asking for further information." You could have just as easily sent me a PM when I said polyurethane. All this could have been avoided if you followed your own advice. Both of us could wait for final confirmation from HQ and done so in a friendly manner, but you weren't interested in that from the first sentence you typed.

I will now send you the entirety of this in a PM where it belongs. I don't have the luxury of anonymity.

I'll only include these parts publicly because I think it speaks volumes to your intent:


Continuing: You said you were "VERY surprised I was unaware". Let's call a spade a spade. (This isn't from a point of concern as you would pretend, but was meant to imply ineptitude on my part and competency on yours, this is an attempt at being condescending which you disingenuously repeat multiple times) If you were here for a forthright discussion you would never have said that you are "VERY surprised", especially not when you immediately turn around and state your opinion that, "I VERY much doubt that Gerhard Haemmerle, Stöckli’s head of international sales the has an in-depth knowledge of structural adhesive systems." You can't have it both ways. You can't pretend to be astonished that I possibly use the wrong name but somehow should know more than one of the people that host the tour at the factory. Once again, you're just looking to fight.

When I went to the trouble of asking Gerhard and reported what he said, this wasn't a rebuttal, it was a only a report. When I asked you about your sourcing, saying it might be out of date, I wasn't refuting the info. I was in fact implying it might be accurate, but likely not current because of the discussion I had earlier that day with Gerhard. This was giving you credit as I was leaving the door open that your info could be accurate. You took this differently than it was written and intended.

You made it clear that you are greatly concerned with who is right and not what is right by your behavior. "You could have just as easily said, I am confident that the gluing system is Redux, but I am curious to see what you find out. Please post your findings at that time." But you didn't, you jumped at the chance to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I then extended the olive leaf and offered some information, to which you used to do more research, insulting me with that same info I provided to you as a courtesy. Some would call this classic trolling behavior.




I came on to pugski to provide insights about Stockli.

I'm here to try and help.

I don't share everything I know for a variety of reasons:

For instance, I know of several independent ski companies in the US that might jump at the chance if they could find ways to implement some of our ski building techniques. Therefore I hold back a good amount of info. Not that it can't be found, but every time it is posted online, it becomes easier to find in searches.

I also don't want to "overstay my welcome" and become overbearing on the public side of the forum by annoying people with non stop promotion of Stockli. I understand there are people here that have fun on other brands as well and I want to tread lightly. I'm cautious that members here would get tired of an abundance of self promotion. If this is not the case, I'm happy to provide everything I share with the retailers here and to provide materials like our elearning platform logins and my personalized slide deck that I built for clinics. I typically reserve this for the PMs I receive. Having responded repeatedly to a lot of the same questions, this might save time for both parties. I would be happy to do a thread of Stockli info if it is helpful so long as it isn't overbearing for the members.
@LindseyB

Next time, you can simply say "It's proprietary information of the company" and end the conversation.. :)
This kind of material details in the manufacturing process is proprietary information that's usually patented and cannot be shared with general public by the company policy...
 

James

Skiing the powder
Instructor
Posts
8,156
No. What would be wrong is hiking up at night with a fire-hose to guarantee yourself some ice to practice on in the morning. :eek:
Nothing wrong with that.

It may be too late to ski the injected Superstar post wcup at Killington though. I'm not sure when they start attempting to break up that surface, but I've heard it's difficult re-integrating it into normal society.
 

Steve

Articulating
Skier
Posts
606
I skied it last December a couple of weeks after the WC and it was still very firm, so to speak.
 

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