The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[LindseyB]

Narrowed it down some more:
SET #1:
Dynastar Speed Master GS R22
Stockli GS
Blizzard Firebird HRC
Stockli AX

SET #2
Elan Ripstick 106 Black Edition
Kastle FX 106 HP

I think it would serve you well to look at the Laser SX. Tell if you think that might fit category 1. When I heard your description for category 1, it was the immediate ski that came to mind.

 

[DocGKR]

PeterP:

For Naster and on-piste cruising: Augment GS, Atomic G9 RS 68, Blizzard Firebird WRC, Dynastar Speed Master, Head i.Speed Pro, Nordica Doberman GSR, Rossignol Hero Master, Stockli Laser GS, etc... Other option is to go to a womens FIS GS ski.

For back bowls and powder: Rustler 10 or 11, Ranger 102, Enforcer 104, Soul 7 HD, QST 106, Stormrider 105, Mantra 102, J Skis Metal 106, Renoun Citadel 106, Moment Wildcat 108, ON3P Woodsman 108.

 

[Peter P]

I think it would serve you well to look at the Laser SX. Tell if you think that might fit category 1. When I heard your description for category 1, it was the immediate ski that came to mind.

Will the SX be significantly better at gates than AX?
And is the AX significantly better at everything else than the SX?
I think the AX at 182cm has slightly smaller radius than SX at 184cm ... that probably does not matter too much.
What are your thoughts on GS versus SX?
Can I get factory race plate for SX? (Speed D20)

Do you have a fav ski store in SLC/Park City for demoing Stockli? I know Jans carries some of them.

 

[LindseyB]

Will the SX be significantly better at gates than AX?
And is the AX significantly better at everything else than the SX?
I think the AX at 182cm has slightly smaller radius than SX at 184cm ... that probably does not matter too much.
What are your thoughts on GS versus SX?
Can I get factory race plate for SX? (Speed D20)

Do you have a fav ski store in SLC/Park City for demoing Stockli? I know Jans carries some of them.

Yes, the SX, even in 177 will be a stronger edge and better in the gates than a 182 AX.

I think if you're truly looking for a the most versatile frontside ski that can hang with FIS skis from other ski in terms of tracking, edge, stability, while only slightly giving up a little bit of rebound, then the SX fits that bill, where the AX would be too much of a drop off from other brands "masters" FIS skis in terms of power across the fall line. (not in tracking or stability through.)

The GS has a little more power across fall line, but is not as versatile.

You can get the D20 plate on it.

Regrettably Jans has overlooked the SX. It can't be demoed in Park City. Actually nobody in Utah has it.

Dawgcatching did a pretty fair assessment on the SX here:
First off, in bumps, I found the SX to be more than passable. It was quite easy to ski, although required more commitment than the AX. It also should NOT be skied from the tail, as it contains a Tigger-like coil, ready to spring. I was able to find the sweet spot on the SX very quickly; it was fluid and relatively easy in the bumps, although maybe 15% less forgiving than the AX. This is a compliment however, as the SX is a powerhouse and there is no way to add energy and power without subtracting forgiveness. I found the SX to be more than competent off-piste. It was a whole lot of fun in bumps; snappy and energetic. Where the SX really shines, however, is on a fast groomed slope. The conditions this day were not ideal, due to the slush, but still, the SX was a cut above everything else I skied. I could load and trust the SX in a way I could not trust any other ski: it had an absolutely locked-in feel when on edge, and instead of getting pushed around by the crud, the SX was pushing the crud out of the way. It was like the old Chuck Norris joke: "when Chuck Norris crashes his bicycle, the road gets Chuck Norris rash". That succinctly sums up the SX. It has the power of a pure carver; the SX is simply unshakable, whereas each of the other skis I tried this day, aside from the WRT, got kicked around to varying degrees in the slush. At speed, I trusted the SX more than any other over the 2-day period. It simply was at a higher level of performance; locked in, powerful, unshakable. I could lay this ski over in a way that I didn't dare with the other skis. The SX allowed me to work the ski; I could run it in big lazy arcs, or dial up the energy and tighten the turn radius for a snappier, more involving ride. I have skied a lot of skis in my day, but I would rate the SX as amongst the best carvers I have ever skied. It is right up there with the nearly perfect MX74 from Kastle, but is obviously a much different ski. I sent the rep a check for his demo pair immediately. If you are in the market for something close to a pure carver, the SX has to be on, if not at the top of, your list.

 

[Peter P]

Yes, the SX, even in 177 will be a stronger edge and better in the gates than a 182 AX.

I think if you're truly looking for a the most versatile frontside ski that can hang with FIS skis from other ski in terms of tracking, edge, stability, while only slightly giving up a little bit of rebound, then the SX fits that bill, where the AX would be too much of a drop off from other brands "masters" FIS skis in terms of power across the fall line. (not in tracking or stability through.)

The GS has a little more power across fall line, but is not as versatile.

You can get the D20 plate on it.

Regrettably Jans has overlooked the SX. It can't be demoed in Park City. Actually nobody in Utah has it.

Dawgcatching did a pretty fair assessment on the SX here:
First off, in bumps, I found the SX to be more than passable. It was quite easy to ski, although required more commitment than the AX. It also should NOT be skied from the tail, as it contains a Tigger-like coil, ready to spring. I was able to find the sweet spot on the SX very quickly; it was fluid and relatively easy in the bumps, although maybe 15% less forgiving than the AX. This is a compliment however, as the SX is a powerhouse and there is no way to add energy and power without subtracting forgiveness. I found the SX to be more than competent off-piste. It was a whole lot of fun in bumps; snappy and energetic. Where the SX really shines, however, is on a fast groomed slope. The conditions this day were not ideal, due to the slush, but still, the SX was a cut above everything else I skied. I could load and trust the SX in a way I could not trust any other ski: it had an absolutely locked-in feel when on edge, and instead of getting pushed around by the crud, the SX was pushing the crud out of the way. It was like the old Chuck Norris joke: "when Chuck Norris crashes his bicycle, the road gets Chuck Norris rash". That succinctly sums up the SX. It has the power of a pure carver; the SX is simply unshakable, whereas each of the other skis I tried this day, aside from the WRT, got kicked around to varying degrees in the slush. At speed, I trusted the SX more than any other over the 2-day period. It simply was at a higher level of performance; locked in, powerful, unshakable. I could lay this ski over in a way that I didn't dare with the other skis. The SX allowed me to work the ski; I could run it in big lazy arcs, or dial up the energy and tighten the turn radius for a snappier, more involving ride. I have skied a lot of skis in my day, but I would rate the SX as amongst the best carvers I have ever skied. It is right up there with the nearly perfect MX74 from Kastle, but is obviously a much different ski. I sent the rep a check for his demo pair immediately. If you are in the market for something close to a pure carver, the SX has to be on, if not at the top of, your list.

Thanks for the great feedback.
I am almost sold.

Maybe the ultimate 2 ski quiver would be:
Laser SX
SR 95 versus Kastle FX 96 HP

But that might be too much $$$.
Two more questions please:
1) where can I get a SX with a D20 plate?
2) if you could only have one Stockli ski would you choose SX or SR 95?
If I got the SR95, then I could pick up a relatively inexpensive Atomic G9 GS which comes with a plate and binding for less than $1K.

 

[LindseyB]

Thanks for the great feedback.
I am almost sold.

Maybe the ultimate 2 ski quiver would be:
Laser SX
SR 95 versus Kastle FX 96 HP

But that might be too much $$$.
Two more questions please:
1) where can I get a SX with a D20 plate?
2) if you could only have one Stockli ski would you choose SX or SR 95?
If I got the SR95, then I could pick up a relatively inexpensive Atomic G9 GS which comes with a plate and binding for less than $1K.

So I checked on KSL classifieds.

There is a 2017 barely used SX for 399 in Park City. Don't miss out, just get it.
Then get the SR 95. That way you can have both.

The new SR95 will be equally as maneuverable as the FX 96hp, the FX96 might barely have more crud busting if someone is heavy for the length, and they will be equal on floatation as the SR is much more floaty than before due to a flex pattern adjustment while the FX retains a lot of rocker.
That said, the SR95 will have a better on snow feel, better tracking stability, more dampening, smoother, better carving, and is still lighter than the Kastle. For example, the SR95 in a longer 184 is 1850gram compared with a shorter FX95hp in 180 at 1890gram.

It looks like the FX(BMX) series gave up metal for a few reasons, not only because it wanted to. (While the new FX are lighter than the old by a bit, that wasn't the only reason to change it up.) When Kastle was purchased by Sporten in Czech this past manufacturing year, more production was moved out of the Head factory. Because the FX series lost metal, they had to add on materials to bring back some performance. This is why our SR ski is still lighter than their FX, even with it becoming a carbon ski. We don't have to use as much material to have a powerful edge. With our higher quality layup we can minimize materials while maintaining performance.

 

[Michael Taub]

Well, I got out on the AR's Tuesday. It was early season at Killington, fairly scrapy and firm, with some soft spots as it flurried in the afternoon, and they had guns going on Snowden. What a great ski. Great edge hold, wonderful turns, and really stable through all kinds of snow. I got the 182, as I want a ski that will just rip over anything. My SR83's are 175 and I was a bit concerned about the longer length as well as the increased turn radius, especially after reading Lindsey's remarks. I'm glad to say it was not a problem at all. The ski felt really light and playful, and able to make a variety of turn shapes. The tip is wide, so if you pressure it as you move through the fall line, it really comes around. Pressure a little farther back and it comes around a bit slower, but still on rails. Get a little further back and the ski will buck you off, tell you to get a lesson, and be down at the lodge before you pull your sorry self out of the woods. There were some smallish death cookies on part of the piste, about the size of a small apple and the ski blasted over them like it was groomed. Whenever there was a bit of softness the ski dug in and ripped. Once this ski is on the edge, nothing stops it, and it just keeps going. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the ski was to skid around the turn as well. If you started the turn with a skid, it was easy to keep the skid going, change the turn radius, and even get on edge if you needed to. Really forgiving that way. I also really enjoyed the longer edge, the difference was really noticeable, and welcome as the conditions were firm. There isn't much rocker so you get a lot of edge contact. There were some small bumps and the ski seemed ok in there, but the 182 will be a bit long, and I don't ski bumps so much anymore.

I'm really glad I got the longer ski. The added length gave me the stability I want, and didn't seem to make the ski hard to handle. I'm 65 and out of shape right now, so I was a bit worried, but it is great. If you really want to motor down the hill, I would recommend it. I've been skiing a long time, and am an ex-racer, but if I can handle it, a young pup should be fine. What a great ski. I like the cosmetics as well........Thank you Stockli for building real skis. There is nothing like a handmade Swiss racing ski with metal in it.

 

[PNWRod]

So are you just trying to torture me because we don't have any snow and I have gotten out on mine yet.

 

[Seldomski]

@LindseyB --

Which do you think are the better skis for bumps? Laser AX, Laser AR, or SR88? Or something else?

 

[LindseyB]

@LindseyB --

Which do you think are the better skis for bumps? Laser AX, Laser AR, or SR88? Or something else?

I would say our best ski for moguls is the Laser SC.

 

[Peter P]

So I checked on KSL classifieds.

There is a 2017 barely used SX for 399 in Park City. Don't miss out, just get it.
Then get the SR 95. That way you can have both.

The new SR95 will be equally as maneuverable as the FX 96hp, the FX96 might barely have more crud busting if someone is heavy for the length, and they will be equal on floatation as the SR is much more floaty than before due to a flex pattern adjustment while the FX retains a lot of rocker.
That said, the SR95 will have a better on snow feel, better tracking stability, more dampening, smoother, better carving, and is still lighter than the Kastle. For example, the SR95 in a longer 184 is 1850gram compared with a shorter FX95hp in 180 at 1890gram.

It looks like the FX(BMX) series gave up metal for a few reasons, not only because it wanted to. (While the new FX are lighter than the old by a bit, that wasn't the only reason to change it up.) When Kastle was purchased by Sporten in Czech this past manufacturing year, more production was moved out of the Head factory. Because the FX series lost metal, they had to add on materials to bring back some performance. This is why our SR ski is still lighter than their FX, even with it becoming a carbon ski. We don't have to use as much material to have a powerful edge. With our higher quality layup we can minimize materials while maintaining performance.

I know you are going to think I am nuts going back and forth with my decisions ... lol
I am thinking the SX turn radius at 177 will be slightly too short for what I want to do soooo now I am really digging the idea of the Laser GS at 180cm.
Also finding a GS with carbon plate package is easy ... Jans carries it! Could you please compare and contrast the SX and GS.
As for my 2nd pair to balance out the quiver, I am down to: SR95 versus MX99 versus Mantra M5. Please give me some feedback on those as well
You are the best btw!!!

 

[LindseyB]

I know you are going to think I am nuts going back and forth with my decisions ... lol
I am thinking the SX turn radius at 177 will be slightly too short for what I want to do soooo now I am really digging the idea of the Laser GS at 180cm.
Also finding a GS with carbon plate package is easy ... Jans carries it! Could you please compare and contrast the SX and GS.
As for my 2nd pair to balance out the quiver, I am down to: SR95 versus MX99 versus Mantra M5. Please give me some feedback on those as well
You are the best btw!!!

Jans will be able to dial you in on that GS just fine.

Having skied all three.

SR95, super versatile. Literally the best ski ever made. I've said it before and I'll say it again, If I had to only pick one ski to take to the grave, it would be an easy pick and I would take the SR95. I assume you'll get the 184cm since you are eyeing the 180 GS. I predict you will spend 90% of your days on the SR95 because it is so good in variable snow and pow, yet so good on the frontside.

The MX99 performs when you ski the way it wants you to ski. The right speed, the right radius, etc. Finds a solid edge at about 30 mph. Does not track well below that speed, because the ski is waiting to be bent into the radius it was made for. Because it is a performance sandwich stack without an accommodating lamination system, it is not versatile is it's flex and therefore not versatile in it's turn shapes. Is it better than some cheaper skis? Yeah, because it is a higher quality Head ski with rubber in it. It is a ski that competes near the top of it's class like the MX84 was known for? Not really. For a ski of this width, it's doesn't float well, it doesn't maneuver well. The only time I thought it outperformed the lack-luster Mantra M5 was high speed carving and a slightly more damp feel in crud. It asks quite a bit and doesn't give much in return.

The Mantra is great for intermediates or advanced skiers not looking to get a ton of thrill out of a ski. Jack of all trades, master of none. It does exactly what it was designed to do, accommodate weekend warriors particularly well and keep Volkl brand fanboys from looking elsewhere to find out there are a lot funner skis on the market right now.

 

[neonorchid]

-
Mantra is great for intermediates or advanced skiers not looking to get a ton of thrill out of a ski. Jack of all trades, master of none. It does exactly what it was designed to do, accommodate weekend warriors particularly well and keep Volkl brand fanboys from looking elsewhere to find out there are a lot funner skis on the market right now.

Volkl V-Werks Mantra M5 vs. 2020 Stormrider 95 comparison, please?

 

[Dave]

I would say our best ski for moguls is the Laser SC.

SC is indeed a great bump ski.

 

[Peter P]

Jans will be able to dial you in on that GS just fine.

Having skied all three.

SR95, super versatile. Literally the best ski ever made. I've said it before and I'll say it again, If I had to only pick one ski to take to the grave, it would be an easy pick and I would take the SR95. I assume you'll get the 184cm since you are eyeing the 180 GS. I predict you will spend 90% of your days on the SR95 because it is so good in variable snow and pow, yet so good on the frontside.

The MX99 performs when you ski the way it wants you to ski. The right speed, the right radius, etc. Finds a solid edge at about 30 mph. Does not track well below that speed, because the ski is waiting to be bent into the radius it was made for. Because it is a performance sandwich stack without an accommodating lamination system, it is not versatile is it's flex and therefore not versatile in it's turn shapes. Is it better than some cheaper skis? Yeah, because it is a higher quality Head ski with rubber in it. It is a ski that competes near the top of it's class like the MX84 was known for? Not really. For a ski of this width, it's doesn't float well, it doesn't maneuver well. The only time I thought it outperformed the lack-luster Mantra M5 was high speed carving and a slightly more damp feel in crud. It asks quite a bit and doesn't give much in return.

The Mantra is great for intermediates or advanced skiers not looking to get a ton of thrill out of a ski. Jack of all trades, master of none. It does exactly what it was designed to do, accommodate weekend warriors particularly well and keep Volkl brand fanboys from looking elsewhere to find out there are a lot funner skis on the market right now.

Sold. How is the binding package for the SR95? Sufficient or should I get it flat and put something else on it? Will Freeflex Evo fit on there?
5'11" 190 lbs super aggressive ... 184cm right?

 

[LindseyB]

Sold. How is the binding package for the SR95? Sufficient or should I get it flat and put something else on it? Will Freeflex Evo fit on there?
5'11" 190 lbs super aggressive ... 184cm right?

The Warden 13 we use has not let me down. I used to be an FKS only guy, but I have never prereleased from our Warden. I think it does an outstanding job on power transfer as well. That is why we put it on the AX and AR. I've never seen a free flex evo on a SR ski. I for sure would not plate the ski.

184cm will be a perfect fit. I am your exact same size.

 

[TimF]

So--for a lightweight, if one was not sure on the 175 vs 84 lengths of last years (2019) SR 95 then this years model in the 184 would be easier to maneuver in tight spaces while still holding up at speed. I am 5'8" and about 132 lbs. I still like longer skis for stability and my usual out West ski is the Fischer Motiv 95 i in 180cm and works well for me. I was on the fence on the 175 vs 184 of last years SR 95. I demoed both lengths last year in CO. The first was the 175 at Breck with some groomers with the family and then up higher in 4-6 inches of new snow/crud. Carved great even though it didn't really have a good tune. 3 weeks later I demo'ed the 184 back at Breck just at the start of the monster dump at then end of Feb. In open terrain I was great blasting through crud and soft moguls and floated well in 6-10". I like to ski tight trees when I can so was unsure if the 184 would be too much to throw around.
Thanks for the input

 

[Philpug]

The Warden 13 we use has not let me down. I used to be an FKS only guy, but I have never prereleased from our Warden. I think it does an outstanding job on power transfer as well. That is why we put it on the AX and AR. I've never seen a free flex evo on a SR ski. I for sure would not plate the ski.

184cm will be a perfect fit. I am your exact same size.

There are certain people in a certain organization that will remain nameless that actually like the Warden better than the Sth2.

 

[MasterHero]

My new ski . .

 

[PNWRod]

You need to change out your profile pic!