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ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
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For me, @Paul Lutes describes it well, the magic of the Laser AX.

I also experience that the little appreciated Laser GS (at least in 180/18) is magical, different and complementary to the AX. At that length, it does not readily have the characteristic GS feel of a bit longer GS version, and thus is more approachable. It's great. It is comparable to the Head Rebel WC iSpeed 180/18, actually: it is slightly stiffer than the iSpeed, so it has a more "ride the rail" feel and ability, whereas the Head has a smoother, slightly greater "flex that ski feel" to it. Both neat.

For some, I know, the Laser SL is also a special ski (though I have not tried it). Something about the combination of softer flex (for a slalom ski) and Stockli finesse.
 

LindseyB

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The AR is not designed to be a bigger AX. We could have copied the construction and proportions to a wider width, but that's not what this ski is about.

If a bigger AX is what you are looking for I suggest the 95, it is an extremely close crossover for feel and sweet spot and IMO performs just as well on the groomed. If somebody loves the feel of the AX, 9/10 times they will love the feel of the 95.


Mathieu wanted to create a very versatile ski for a variety of conditions and skiers. A ski that anyone could use to get better on, a ski that could carve hardpacked as well as bust crud and still manage a surprise powder stash, also a ski that is a sleeper for those that really like to push a ski at high speed on steeps and chopped snow.

The wood core is the same as a Stormrider core. The ski is as wide as the 95 Stormrider in the front and has Laser sizing in the tail. However, the tip design is more like a Laser with a forward contact point and very little rocker. The ski has a 12cm slit in the front titanal and a 6cm slit in the tail for smooth turn entry and exit. Because the ski does not have turtle shell, it does not get as giddy until aggressively pressured.
At slow speeds it rounds a turn and handles a variety of snow conditions as a simply well behaved ski made to nicely navigate mostly frontside terrain.

Here's some of what I have observed so far with the AR so far..

My brother who tech reps for me had kind of a "meh" response to it the first time he skied it at Big Sky during a demo we were doing. He thought it was a nice ski, but wasn't overwhelmed.
I sent him back up for another run and told him to leave his kids behind and step on the gas.
He fell in love with the ski, came back with a huge smile, ordered one for his very skilled wife, and is now struggling whether to add the 105 or the AR to his own quiver this year. My other tech rep called dibs on one of my demo fleet AR. Mind you, these guys would be regarded as experts, they get to test all the models, and they can pick any Stockli they would like.

It isn't a super floaty ski in powder due to a narrower width at 83mm, but with the tip so wide compared to the tail, the nose always rises, even in Alta powder.

AX=Push energy and energy bounces back. This to me is a play ski. This type of ski boosts ego and makes me feel good about my turns.
AR=Push energy and that energy mashes into the terrain. This to me is a rally/charging ski. This kind of ski boosts my adrenaline and makes me feel good about the runs/conditions I skied.

Who is the AR for:
1-Skier, typically skis a 60-70mm ski that would like a ski for variable conditions, some east powder, and nice cruising between the fresh variable sections of newer snow.
2-Skier, mid level, needs one ski quiver, prolly east coast and could benefit from the smoother ride/edge hold of Stockli and a shape that rounds out easy turns.
3-Skier 30-50 yr old freeride badass, thinks anything under 100mm is a carver. Wants groomers as part of the repertoire and charges chopped snow at speed.
4-Skier looking for a 1 ski quiver at a resort with < 350" annually and loves all the terrain, groomers and side trails alike.
5-Skier at powder resort that wants a 2nd ski for the "thaw" but can't bring themselves to buy a narrow ski in case their secret pow stash is still good a week after the last storm, but realizes groomers can be a total party.

Who is the AX for?
1-Skier looking to have delusions of grandeur and wants to fantasize that they could have been a racer at some point even though they might stink.
2-Skier who is a former racer and wants a fun versatile play carver that handles abnormally well off piste for a carving ski.
3-Skier who is an instructor and faces a wider variety of conditions than the instructor that uses the Laser SC.
4-Skier who wants to work their way up to race performance skis, but isn't ready yet.

I'm finding that 2 types of skiers really like the AR and 1 type doesn't.

The first type love it more than the AX as less powerful skiers that like how easy the ski handles bumpy on-piste skiing and easy turning.
The second type love it more than the AX as skiers that want a full throttle weird snow charger that they can also carve groomers with.

The third type that may not click with the AR as much as the AX are those who fall in between these two categories. They don't need a ski that turns so easily, but at the same time they are either limited in physicality or skillset that they are unaware that it has some really high gears in variable snow.
 
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Jim McDonald

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I'm perfectly willing to believe that I didn't (don't have the ability to) push the AR hard enough to elicit its magnificence.
 

Paul Lutes

Making fresh tracks
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Excellent breakdown, Lindsey - thanks!

I especially appreciated the comparison with the SR95 regarding design specs, although I initially was thinking, "no way you can compare a 78 waisted ski to a 95!". I've tried but failed to fall in love with several previous 95 generations ....... might have to try one more time!
 

LindseyB

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Excellent breakdown, Lindsey - thanks!

I especially appreciated the comparison with the SR95 regarding design specs, although I initially was thinking, "no way you can compare a 78 waisted ski to a 95!". I've tried but failed to fall in love with several previous 95 generations ....... might have to try one more time!

Hey Paul,

Let me put context on that SR95 comparison to the AX in terms of groomers.

I have had really good skiers try the AX on groomers, only to turn around and ski the 95 on those same groomers and feel like the 95 was even better. (Deer Valley)

But this may not be the case for every one. At DV the groomers aren't so steep that you need to check speed by brush carving, you can just link endless carves. At a steep hardpacked resort like Taos or SV someone often prefers the AX for controlling speed with brushed carves (Warm Spring I.E.) Not saying that the 95 isn't great at brush carves, just that the leverage on the knee is more stress with the wider ski when skidding on hardpack.

The other factor is how someone rolls a ski, some people roll a ski quickly even when it is very wide. Some don't. I happen to roll a ski over really fast and the width doesn't affect my skier style as much. Not saying it's better, just that it affects some and not others.
 

Alan Linsley

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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I'd like some advice on the Laser AX vs Other Lasers. I'm looking hard at TimF's used pair of 175 AXs. I've read all of the stellar reviews.

My real hesitation is that the AX gets billed more as an intermediate-advanced ski. I ski about as well as the fellow in the video testing the ARs earlier in this thread. This will be the narrowest ski in my quiver and is replacing some FIS SL skis that I really enjoyed. I'm looking for something more versatile than the SL ski, but still exciting. Lindsey B's description of the AX skier as "someone who wants a race performance ski but isn't ready yet" has me nervous.

I demoed a few skis last year and am worried that the AX will end up a bit like how I found the Rally. I get why people like them, but they were too easygoing for me.

I am sure that the AX would be great - I guess my question is: would a different Laser be even better?
 

Noodler

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I'd like some advice on the Laser AX vs Other Lasers. I'm looking hard at TimF's used pair of 175 AXs. I've read all of the stellar reviews.

My real hesitation is that the AX gets billed more as an intermediate-advanced ski. I ski about as well as the fellow in the video testing the ARs earlier in this thread. This will be the narrowest ski in my quiver and is replacing some FIS SL skis that I really enjoyed. I'm looking for something more versatile than the SL ski, but still exciting. Lindsey B's description of the AX skier as "someone who wants a race performance ski but isn't ready yet" has me nervous.

I demoed a few skis last year and am worried that the AX will end up a bit like how I found the Rally. I get why people like them, but they were too easygoing for me.

I am sure that the AX would be great - I guess my question is: would a different Laser be even better?

Don't confuse a ski with a "wide bandwidth" with those that are more narrow in their application. The Laser AX can admit more to the show because it provides "cheap seats" and a "VIP section" if you're getting what I'm putting down. ;)

IOW, you shouldn't have any concern about top end performance. :)
 

LindseyB

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I'd like some advice on the Laser AX vs Other Lasers. I'm looking hard at TimF's used pair of 175 AXs. I've read all of the stellar reviews.

My real hesitation is that the AX gets billed more as an intermediate-advanced ski. I ski about as well as the fellow in the video testing the ARs earlier in this thread. This will be the narrowest ski in my quiver and is replacing some FIS SL skis that I really enjoyed. I'm looking for something more versatile than the SL ski, but still exciting. Lindsey B's description of the AX skier as "someone who wants a race performance ski but isn't ready yet" has me nervous.

I demoed a few skis last year and am worried that the AX will end up a bit like how I found the Rally. I get why people like them, but they were too easygoing for me.

I am sure that the AX would be great - I guess my question is: would a different Laser be even better?

Also note "playful carver for former racer". I wouldn't say intermediate TO advanced skier for AX. I would say intermediate AND advanced might be a proper categorization for the AX.

The reason I mention the AX for people aspiring to get to race skis is that it is rather forgiving at lower speeds, pressures, bad snow compared to SL and GS skis. Depending on the length vs. size of the skier, it can be a good precursor to either. As Noodler pointed out, it does has fun top end.

That being said,

What length of ski are your options? I'm guessing you are replacing a 165cm SL?
Are you looking for more versatility in terrain or in turns?
What percentage of time on-piste vs. off?
What does this turn feels like that you are looking for?
 
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Michael Kane

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Also note "playful carver for former racer".

The reason I mention the AX for people aspiring to get to race skis is that it is rather forgiving at lower speeds, pressures, bad snow compared to SL and GS skis. Depending on the length vs. size of the skier, it can be a good precursor to either. As Noodler pointed out, it does has fun top end.

That being said,

What length of ski are your options? I'm guessing you are replacing a 165cm SL?
Are you looking for more versatility in terrain or in turns?
What percentage of time on-piste vs. off?
What does this turn feels like that you are looking for?

I would concur with this statement. This is my experience on the AX as well.
 

ski otter 2

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In agreement with the last two posts, at least for this 150 lb./5'10" guy, the 175 AX is fairly fast turny, without more or less having/requiring working the ski on edge from the tip to tail the way a slalom ski mostly likes: the AX is playful and forgiving, while also having great edge control. It's a bit more versatile and playful than a cheater 175/17 or 180/18 near race gs ski, more or less so depending on the binding setup. I have FIS SL and GS skis, and cheater GS skis, that I really love and ski often. The AX versions are a nice, playful contrast/complement/change of pace to those. Playful is good. Fun.

The wider 182 version is a bit different, more stable and chargy, at least with my profile. Still playful, forgiving and smooth.
 

Michael Taub

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Well, I just picked up my pair of 182 AR's, and am beyond stoked. A few years ago, I got a set of the short lived SR83 for touring, and mounted them with a set of dynafits. I was really surprised and amazed at the ski. It seemed to handle everything, no top speed, and had great edge hold. These were my second set of Stockli's, having bought a pair of SR100's a few years ago, and liked these much more. 100 is just too wide for me. I skied the 83's a lot last season, and just loved them. I did take it a bit easy because of the bindings though. I kept thinking what I really wanted was the same ski, a little longer, with a bit more snap in the tail mounted with an alpine binding. My wish appears to be granted with the AR. They are a bit heavy for me, but I don't think it will matter. I'm really looking forward to getting these on the hill, it's been a while since I've had an alpine setup as I've been in the tech binding/touring world for a while. BTW, I started skiing when I was 5yo, and this will be my 60th consecutive season. I'm just as excited about getting new skis as I was when I was young
.....
 

Steve

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@LindseyB can I ask you a question? I have both 2017 Laser SL's and 2016 Laser SC's. The SC's have over 150 partial days on them. They are mounted without a plate with Attack 13 demo bindings.

Do you think with all those days on them that they would have softened up a bit and how would you consider they would ski differently?

I still love them btw.
 

Scrundy

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I’ve been eyeing the Laser GS real bad, it’s hard to fight the urge as I really don’t need them. Enjoy your new boards and let us know how you like them
 

LindseyB

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@LindseyB can I ask you a question? I have both 2017 Laser SL's and 2016 Laser SC's. The SC's have over 150 partial days on them. They are mounted without a plate with Attack 13 demo bindings.

Do you think with all those days on them that they would have softened up a bit and how would you consider they would ski differently?

I still love them btw.


They would barely soften if any. Because the gluing consists of mostly Polyurethane, the life of the ski is very high. Some of the ol'timers in Sun Valley tell they have 400-500 days on pairs that still preform close to new.

The edges and bases will wear out sooner than flex performance on a Stockli. This I why I recommend as little machine tuning as possible and advise good hand tuning.

2 Years ago we started putting thicker edges on most our the skis as well so that the skis would have longer service lifespan. With our new robots, finishing the bases also pulls less material, so the bases are now thicker.

I would say, before replacing your SC, look for another model you may fall in love with and keep putting the miles on that SC. As long as you have edges to work with you should have a long time coming before losing performance.
 

Steve

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@LindseyB thanks for the reply, that's really great to hear! A lot of my days are mornings only, so I guess it's not even that many days for a Stockli! I'll probably ski the baby blues (SL's) more this season, thus extending the life of the SC's even more. Those SL's are the prettiest skis I've ever owned.
 

slowrider

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Just bought my second pair of Stocklis. 165 fis sl. Those are going to work me like a rented mule.
 

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