2019 Head iTitan vs 2017 iRally (or PRD vs PRX bindings)

[eok]

It's been low tide spring conditions here in central OR for a few weeks now, so I've clocked a lot of runs on my narrower carving skis: 2019 iTitans and 2017 iRallys. I got the 2017 iRallys during a ski swap this Fall for a too-good-to-pass-up price. I tuned both the iRallys and iTitans to sharp 1 degree base and 2 degree side bevels.

At the beginning of the spring conditions I did a few back-to-back days where I'd ski the iTitans one day and the iRallys the next. I wanted to get to know the skis and confirm their character was different enough to justify keeping both. The quick answer is a qualified "yes"...

The qualification? The PRX bindings on the 2017 iRallys have too much delta and this makes the skis a lot more challenging than they need to be. I can adjust to the delta by getting more forward (in my Raptor 140 boots) but, naturally, this loads up my quads more. This makes the iRallys a bit more work than the iTitans. Overall, my 2017 iRallys seem technically more demanding and eager to point out when I'm getting lazy. I found them really easy to catch the rear inside edge of the soon-to-be outside ski during turn transition. I'm pretty sure this is due to the extra delta and me sometimes being too lazy in the transition. But when I'm skiing the iRallys as they want: great carves and lots of fun.

The 2019 iTitans have a pretty broad performance envelope. Not as demanding as my 2017 iRallys. The 2019 iTitans have PRD bindings - which have a more moderate binding delta which seems to work out better with my Raptor 140s. With the iTitans I can relax and cruise or I can ski aggressively. Like the iRallys: great at carving. They definitely seem more forgiving than the 2017 iRallys, yet the iTitans seem a bit more damp & stable.

Bottom line is I really like both skis - but the iTitan seems a better fit for me overall. Oh, and I hate PRX bindings.

 

[Philpug]

I am missing it....what are you asking? Keep both? Sell one? Swap bindings?

 

[Uncle-A]

Are both skis the same length? Are the bindings mounted in the same location on center of boot or moved forward or back?

 

[eok]

I am missing it....what are you asking? Keep both? Sell one? Swap bindings?

Just communicating my experience. Also, "binding delta" is a topic that comes up here regularly, and binding delta is a big factor (for me) on my experiences with PRX bindings on the iRally.

 

[eok]

Are both skis the same length? Are the bindings mounted in the same location on center of boot or moved forward or back?

Both 170s. Both bindings set to the same settings and positions.

 

[Uncle-A]

I own the 2015 - 2016 Rally in a 170 and the guy I ski with the most has a 2018 - 2019 Titan 170 we both have the same BSL so we share skis frequently. I have the PRX but I am 1.5 CM forward of boot mark on the ski and he has the PRD mounted on the boot center line of the ski. I have found the Titan more demanding than my Rally. I have said many time in posts that I can ski the Rally all day but I can only ski the Titan in the morning because it kicks my butt. People have said the 15 - 16 Rally is softer than the newer one and I have not skied the newer model so I can not say one way or the other. What I can say is the guy that owns the Titans really likes my Rally and said they are more forgiving than the Titan. As far as binding delta between the two bindings I do not notice a difference but it is something to checkout next time I ride on the Titan.

 

[eok]

I own the 2015 - 2016 Rally in a 170 and the guy I ski with the most has a 2018 - 2019 Titan 170 we both have the same BSL so we share skis frequently. I have the PRX but I am 1.5 CM forward of boot mark on the ski and he has the PRD mounted on the boot center line of the ski. I have found the Titan more demanding than my Rally. I have said many time in posts that I can ski the Rally all day but I can only ski the Titan in the morning because it kicks my butt. People have said the 15 - 16 Rally is softer than the newer one and I have not skied the newer model so I can not say one way or the other. What I can say is the guy that owns the Titans really likes my Rally and said they are more forgiving than the Titan. As far as binding delta between the two bindings I do not notice a difference but it is something to checkout next time I ride on the Titan.
...

What you describe is what I'd heard as well. But it is not what I'm experiencing.

I have a largish BSL (323mm, 28.5 Raptor RS 140). This already puts my boot a bit forward. So the cumulative effect of moving the binding 1.5 CM forward would be pretty big. Regardless, I'm curious now, so I'll probably try +.5 and +1 CM to see what happens.

I'm aware that my larger BSL should make me less sensitive to larger binding deltas. But the PRX delta is pretty big. I did some measurements at home, with the PRX having a ~9mm delta and the PRD a ~6mm delta. Anyway - for me - 9mm is a lot. My Attack 13s (non-demo, mounted on Navigator 90s) have a tiny ~1.5mm delta and that delta seems pretty much perfect.

I think I read somewhere here that the 2017 iRally's design was tweaked slightly to make it more technically oriented - particularly in the 170 length.

I need to make it clear that I can have a blast on my 2017 iRallys. I just have to really stay on my game and drive them. Can't really "relax" and be lazy on 'em - ever. And that's OK because I'm pretty sure they're helping me improve my technique.

 

[Fuller]

I'm in agreement on the PRX binding - I have either the 2016 or 2017 170cm version (not sure as I got them used) iTitan. Had them out today as a matter of fact and they are a lot of fun / work. When I'm energized and skiing well the delta doesn't bother me but as soon as I try to just cruise the wheels fall off. I see some PRD bindings in my future.

 

[Uncle-A]

What you describe is what I'd heard as well. But it is not what I'm experiencing.

I have a largish BSL (323mm, 28.5 Raptor RS 140). This already puts my boot a bit forward. So the cumulative effect of moving the binding 1.5 CM forward would be pretty big. Regardless, I'm curious now, so I'll probably try +.5 and +1 CM to see what happens.

I'm aware that my larger BSL should make me less sensitive to larger binding deltas. But the PRX delta is pretty big. I did some measurements at home, with the PRX having a ~9mm delta and the PRD a ~6mm delta. Anyway - for me - 9mm is a lot. My Attack 13s (non-demo, mounted on Navigator 90s) have a tiny ~1.5mm delta and that delta seems pretty much perfect.

I think I read somewhere here that the 2017 iRally's design was tweaked slightly to make it more technically oriented - particularly in the 170 length.

I need to make it clear that I can have a blast on my 2017 iRallys. I just have to really stay on my game and drive them. Can't really "relax" and be lazy on 'em - ever. And that's OK because I'm pretty sure they're helping me improve my technique.

Thanks, for the information and I will say that my BSL is a 305 (26.5) and a 100 flex boot so maybe I don't feel any issue with the delta because of the softer boot but not sure.

 

[no edge]

QUOTE="Uncle-A, post: 451898, member: 463"]
I own the 2015 - 2016 Rally in a 170 and the guy I ski with the most has a 2018 - 2019 Titan 170 we both have the same BSL so we share skis frequently. I have the PRX but I am 1.5 CM forward of boot mark on the ski and he has the PRD mounted on the boot center line of the ski. I have found the Titan more demanding than my Rally. I have said many time in posts that I can ski the Rally all day but I can only ski the Titan in the morning because it kicks my butt. People have said the 15 - 16 Rally is softer than the newer one and I have not skied the newer model so I can not say one way or the other. What I can say is the guy that owns the Titans really likes my Rally and said they are more forgiving than the Titan. As far as binding delta between the two bindings I do not notice a difference but it is something to checkout next time I ride on the Titan.
View attachment 95868
[/QUOTE]

If I had access to these two (I have the iTitan) it would be fun to ski one of each, together. That is something unusual that I probably would do.

The iTitan is taxing and I find myself exhausted after 12 runs. I have heard people on pugski report that they use it to teach and drill. Not so sure I could do that. But I tend to ski run after run on quite steep trails and the ski rips. It is a performance ski that lays down turns almost slalom in style. For me, it does not do well in bumps relative to other ski choices. 80 under foot does not equate to an all mountain ski.

From the friends I ski with it seems like the iRally is a step down in performance but a pleasant ski to ride. If I were to look at owning the Rally, I would look at many other choices, Head and otherwise.

 

[Uncle-A]

QUOTE="Uncle-A, post: 451898, member: 463"]
I own the 2015 - 2016 Rally in a 170 and the guy I ski with the most has a 2018 - 2019 Titan 170 we both have the same BSL so we share skis frequently. I have the PRX but I am 1.5 CM forward of boot mark on the ski and he has the PRD mounted on the boot center line of the ski. I have found the Titan more demanding than my Rally. I have said many time in posts that I can ski the Rally all day but I can only ski the Titan in the morning because it kicks my butt. People have said the 15 - 16 Rally is softer than the newer one and I have not skied the newer model so I can not say one way or the other. What I can say is the guy that owns the Titans really likes my Rally and said they are more forgiving than the Titan. As far as binding delta between the two bindings I do not notice a difference but it is something to checkout next time I ride on the Titan.
View attachment 95868

If I had access to these two (I have the iTitan) it would be fun to ski one of each, together. That is something unusual that I probably would do.

The iTitan is taxing and I find myself exhausted after 12 runs. I have heard people on pugski report that they use it to teach and drill. Not so sure I could do that. But I tend to ski run after run on quite steep trails and the ski rips. It is a performance ski that lays down turns almost slalom in style. For me, it does not do well in bumps relative to other ski choices. 80 under foot does not equate to an all mountain ski.

From the friends I ski with it seems like the iRally is a step down in performance but a pleasant ski to ride. If I were to look at owning the Rally, I would look at many other choices, Head and otherwise.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I would try one of each on both feet but if I did I probably would put the Titan on my right foot and the Rally on my left since my right foot is my dominant foot and I turn left better than my right. As I have said the Rally is softer and more forgiving so that would be my game plan.
Since you said that you are good for about 12 runs on your Titan I now know it is not only me that find them challenging. Thanks

 

[ski otter 2]

Question: Do the Rallys come with the PRXs and the Titans with the PRDs, or were they just options that happened to end up on those skis?

I've experienced the PRDs on a number of skis, and find they give a more directional, less playful feel than some all mountain bindings, but they do not add to the demanding quality of the ski particularly.

With FIS slalom race skis, I've experimented with increasing the heel height with shims under the binding heel piece and with shims under the boot heel outside the boot and inside. In general, the raised heel (or raised delta of the PRXs, I'd gather also) give a greater leverage over the ski that some folks like for slalom, others don't. To me it adds to the response, making it more powerful and quicker when desired. More authority through the gates more quickly, is the idea. But often, depending on the particular ski, I didn't need that extra leverage: and with a lower delta, it was often easier to work the rounded flex of the slalom ski more naturally, less abruptly - easier, sometimes - again, depending on its flex and stiffness.
Not sure if this translates to you on your PRXes, but it may.

 

[Uncle-A]

Question: Do the Rallys come with the PRXs and the Titans with the PRDs, or were they just options that happened to end up on those skis?

I've experienced the PRDs on a number of skis, and find they give a more directional, less playful feel than some all mountain bindings, but they do not add to the demanding quality of the ski particularly.

With FIS slalom race skis, I've experimented with increasing the heel height with shims under the binding heel piece and with shims under the boot heel outside the boot and inside. In general, the raised heel (or raised delta of the PRXs, I'd gather also) give a greater leverage over the ski that some folks like for slalom, others don't. To me it adds to the response, making it more powerful and quicker when desired. More authority through the gates more quickly, is the idea. But often, depending on the particular ski, I didn't need that extra leverage: and with a lower delta, it was often easier to work the rounded flex of the slalom ski more naturally, less abruptly - easier, sometimes - again, depending on its flex and stiffness.
Not sure if this translates to you on your PRXes, but it may.

See the photo above of both skis side by side.

 

[eok]

Question: Do the Rallys come with the PRXs and the Titans with the PRDs, or were they just options that happened to end up on those skis?

I've experienced the PRDs on a number of skis, and find they give a more directional, less playful feel than some all mountain bindings, but they do not add to the demanding quality of the ski particularly.

With FIS slalom race skis, I've experimented with increasing the heel height with shims under the binding heel piece and with shims under the boot heel outside the boot and inside. In general, the raised heel (or raised delta of the PRXs, I'd gather also) give a greater leverage over the ski that some folks like for slalom, others don't. To me it adds to the response, making it more powerful and quicker when desired. More authority through the gates more quickly, is the idea. But often, depending on the particular ski, I didn't need that extra leverage: and with a lower delta, it was often easier to work the rounded flex of the slalom ski more naturally, less abruptly - easier, sometimes - again, depending on its flex and stiffness.
Not sure if this translates to you on your PRXes, but it may.

I believe all the Supershape models (Rally, Titan, etc.) came with Head (Tyrolia) PRX bindings in 2017. The PRX and PRD bindings are essentially of the same basic (note, I said b a s i c) design, with the PRX having more delta than the current PRD. The rest of what you describe is generally considered one of the benefits of increasing binding delta or "ramp". Great for racers. The downside is it tends to work the quads more - which can make the skis more tiring for a mear mortal like me.

 

[Uncle-A]

I believe all the Supershape models (Rally, Titan, etc.) came with Head (Tyrolia) PRX bindings in 2017. The PRX and PRD bindings are essentially of the same basic (note, I said b a s i c) design, with the PRX having more delta than the current PRD. The rest of what you describe is generally considered one of the benefits of increasing binding delta or "ramp". Great for racers. The downside is it tends to work the quads more - which can make the skis more tiring for a mear mortal like me.

The PRD has a "Diagonal" heel release the PRX does not. The PRX is a straight up heel release to the best of my knowledge. I think it is more about vintage of the ski, older skis have PRX and newer ones have PRD.