$2.4mil theft of ski gear from Aspen

[crgildart]

So I heard somewhere that it wasn't just a bunch of random one off eBay sales all over the country. They sold a lot in bulk to others who then sold them to random folks. Those middlemen are probably on the hook for remuneration.

 

[Kyle]

The other side of this is what will EBay’s buyer protection do for the innocent purchasers if the insurance company orASC pursues recovery.

 

[Wendy]

The whole thing that gets me about this is they didn't have systems in place to catch the problem within a year. It's not like Aspen is a mom and pop operation anymore. A store I used to work at downtown took a couple years to identify a long time employee for theft, but we're talking literally a mom and pop place with maybe four employees and NO computerization. Any place else I've been would have been on that in an instant, if for no other reason than cameras.

I agree....I can’t wrap my head around the fact that a large operation did not have a tight inventory protocol in place.it just seems like negligence on the part of SkiCo’s management. Security cameras have been around as long as this guy has been stealing skis.

I work part time at a ski shop during the winter...it’s a family owned and run business, with maybe like 12 employees, 4 there at once each day. If anything went missing, the owner would know right away because she runs a tight ship. All our rental equipment there has serial numbers that we use when we sign things out and back in. If something goes missing, we call all the local ski areas and shops. Incredibly, missing skis do get recovered on a regular basis.

 

[eok]

One of my Craigslist purchases was a pair of The Ski Nano about 10 years back when I was still in PA. I was very excited about the purchase and I contacted Bobbie Burns to find out more about them. About half way through the conversation Bobbie said that the skis were actually stolen from him a few months prior along with a few other pairs. I told him I felt awful and offered to return them directly to him. Bobbie assured me that I did nothing wrong and that is sounded like I purchased them legitimately. I had passed along the Craigslist seller but I don't think anything every came of it.

Back in the day, a work buddy of mine bought a pair of the classic orange Hanson boots from a guy literally selling them out of the back of his van... in the back parking lot of the ski shop. $50! My buddy told me the van was full of Hanson boot boxes. I told him he was absolutely crazy in buying what was surely hot goods, regardless of the price.

Well, the "seller" got caught a few days later and gave the police some info on where he sold the boots. I guess it was pretty easy for the detectives to track my buddy down at the ski shop (he was probably wearing the shop's logo ski apron and/or shirt when he bought 'em). I was on duty at the shop when the detectives arrived and got interviewed along with some other staff - my buddy included. He didn't hesitate acknowledging the purchase and surrendering the boots (they were still in the trunk of his Ford Capri). No charges filed. But my buddy was pretty upset about the whole thing. For him, getting Hansons for $50 was like finding his own Unicorn. As for me, I wouldn't ski Hansons even if they were giving them away. OK, OK: maaaybee if they paid me to ski 'em. ;^)

 

[Big J]

"Spreadsheets found on Johnson’s computer at his home showed that between 2010 and 2018, he and his wife listed $2.15 million in total sales from the eBay account, according to the court documents."

Let's say he sold each pair for $700. Which is pretty damn high even for a Kastle demo. Esp from Aspen/Snowmass where they get used a lot.
That's still over 3000 pairs of skis. That's an awful lot of skis.

His average sale was $150 to $350

 

[Big J]

The other side of this is what will EBay’s buyer protection do for the innocent purchasers if the insurance company orASC pursues recovery.

I would think that they would have to refund the buyers money as the buyer protection would apply. Especially having let it go on for so long. The buyers are innocent.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I would think that they would have to refund the buyers money as the buyer protection would apply. Especially having let it go on for so long. The buyers are innocent.

I guess if I had bought skis and skied them for a couple of seasons, I would be happy to give them back and get my money back.

 

[crgildart]

I guess if I had bought skis and skied them for a couple of seasons, I would be happy to give them back and get my money back.

Legally, the authorities don't have to compensate people when recovering stolen goods. They take it in to evidence and return it to the original owner and tell you to try to get your money back from the people going to jail. If it's determined that eBay was the seller eBay will also be facing charges. Again, wouldn't worry if it was years ago, only recent purchasers might get contacted.

 

[crgildart]

I'd think if anyone with deep pockets gets forced in to this to compensate the buyers it would more likely be the actual victim, Aspen because they are the ones who really allowed this to go on so long while failing to properly audit things. eBay and eBay buyers were dealing with people selling Aspen inventory and those people had legitimate Aspen credentials, email addresses, phone numbers, etc..

 

[Big J]

Legally, the authorities don't have to compensate people when recovering stolen goods. They take it in to evidence and return it to the original owner and tell you to try to get your money back from the people going to jail. If it's determined that eBay was the seller eBay will also be facing charges. Again, wouldn't worry if it was years ago, only recent purchasers might get contacted.

Ebay buyer protection would pay.

 

[crgildart]

Ebay buyer protection would pay.

I spent a fair amount of time digging around eBay and PaPal policies about stolen merchandise. There's nothing there in their guarantees that says they will refund money in that circumstance. I was really expecting to find the opposite honestly. If someone steals your money and doesn't send you the goods they are excellent at giving you refunds. However of the goods are delivered, but turn out to be stolen and taken in to police evidence, they have a vague, not out problem stance on that.

 

[Big J]

I spent a fair amount of time digging around eBay and PaPal policies about stolen merchandise. There's nothing there in their guarantees that says they will refund money in that circumstance. I was really expecting to find the opposite honestly. If someone steals your money and doesn't send you the goods they are excellent at giving you refunds. However of the goods are delivered, but turn out to be stolen and taken in to police evidence, they have a vague, not out problem stance on that.

Having over 2000 Ebay purchases and also having been an Ebay seller with an Ebay store I must say we agree to disagree.

On Ebay:
sportandski (7900)No longer a registered user
99.6% positive feedback
1,017 Followers|0 Reviews|36,578 Views|
member since: May 09, 2001

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Legally, the authorities don't have to compensate people when recovering stolen goods. They take it in to evidence and return it to the original owner and tell you to try to get your money back from the people going to jail. If it's determined that eBay was the seller eBay will also be facing charges. Again, wouldn't worry if it was years ago, only recent purchasers might get contacted.

I was making a joke. Aspen is not going to waste their time or money chasing down a bunch of old skis. Probably better for them to take a theft write off or recover from their insurance company. I have not done the legal research to figure out what would happen. Would make a good law school exam question.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Consumers got what they paid for. I just don't see Skico alienating people over this issue. I am sure they want this to go away and they will let the DA deal with the criminal component. I am also quite sure that their internal procedures have changed.

Again, this is a very sad situation. The guy was a football coach, former city councilman and long term, high level employee. His wife was also charged. I really feel bad for his children.

Yeah, this really is sad.

 

[crgildart]

Having over 2000 Ebay purchases and also having been an Ebay seller with an Ebay store I must say we agree to disagree.

On Ebay:
sportandski (7900)No longer a registered user
99.6% positive feedback
1,017 Followers|0 Reviews|36,578 Views|
member since: May 09, 2001

I've been buying and selling for a little while there too

gildart3 ( 1753

)



Agree to disagree.

Selling stolen property is against the law and we will contact law enforcement if an attempt is made to list stolen property on our site.

We'll also support any investigation of sellers who violate this policy.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/stolen-property-policy?id=4334

 

[crgildart]

So here's an interesting afterthought. What if someone did buy something from sportandski, how ever many years ago? Can they contact eBay and demand to return it for full purchase price since we now know it's stolen? I'd love to test that out and see eBay and PayPal's response.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

So here's an interesting afterthought. What if someone did buy something from sportandski, how ever many years ago? Can they contact eBay and demand to return it for full purchase price since we now know it's stolen? I'd love to test that out and see eBay and PayPal's response.

I am not sure it being stolen entitles them to a refund especially if it was used.

 

[crgildart]

I am not sure it being stolen entitles them to a refund especially if it was used.

That's exactly my point. If the authorities came and took them because they were stolen and actually belonged to someone else, eBay's purchase protection doesn't cover that.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

That's exactly my point. If the authorities came and took them because they were stolen and actually belonged to someone else, eBay's purchase protection doesn't cover that.

I doubt the authorities are going to come and take them.

People got what they paid for and likely used them. They are likely worthless now. No one wants them back and the cost of getting them back exceeds the cost of recovery.

 

[coskigirl]

Would make a good law school exam question.

Shush you. This is supposed to be my safe space.